Need help with flight planning

FSE and PE make for a powerful combination
Post Reply
cruster
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 4:57 am

Need help with flight planning

Post by cruster »

Hello! I've been an FSE user for a lot of years (same username; joined in 2007) and have done a fair few flights on VATSIM. I'm looking at moving to the PE world, though, as it looks like a lot more fun/challenge. Over the last couple of months, I've divested General Aviation's (that my FSE group) FBO holdings in the Midwest and set up shop in/around the PE operating area. At this point, I own KBTY, 66CA and CA97, along with a small fleet of aircraft (see bottom of post).

At any rate, I have configured my FBOs, pointed round-robin fashion, and jobs are generated. The next step is to figure out realistic flight plans between the three. This is where I'm stumbling. I don't want to transit restricted areas, and I'm highly concerned about violating FAA regulations. The challenges I'm seeing are that KBTY has restricted areas to the southwest, so I'm going to have to fly around those (or perhaps through the Trona Gap, but threading that needle looks tough) and the Sierra Nevada Mountains lying between 66CA and KBTY (they also potentially come in to play running between KBTY and CA97, I think).

Anyone have any suggestions on a way to lay out a realistic flight plan that gets me between these fields? I've included a Skyvector grab below if it helps. Thanks in advance for any insights/suggestions!

Image

Aircraft:
  • JS32
  • MU2
  • C208
  • COL3
  • BK17
  • PA38 (won't be used for FSE)
wmburns
Posts: 474
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:28 am

Re: Need help with flight planning

Post by wmburns »

A couple of things to add.

Will this flight be IFR or VFR? Under VFR one would fly through a MOA where as under IFR it might be better to use charted Victor airways to transit through or around.

IMO the flight route is likely very different if the aircraft is pressurized or not. If un-pressurized it would be best to limit long flights to 12,500 or less.

Also, the service ceiling of your aircraft could come into play. This in turn could alter the route.

In general when planning a low altitude route (less than 18,000'), I look to see the nearest VOR's and Victors airways along the general direction of flight.

For example here's a route that uses Victor airways and does not require climbing above 12,000'. However you can see from the route that it's far from direct.

http://skyvector.com/?ll=35.03055863206 ... :A.K2.66CA

Likely I would choose a different route flying a pressurized aircraft on a VFR day.

Interesting problem and some challenging terrain and airspace. Likely this will tests one's resolve to make realistic flights on FSE.
Amos Waterbury
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:43 pm

Re: Need help with flight planning

Post by Amos Waterbury »

I agree! When planning flights on FSE to fly on PE, from those airports, it might be a good idea to fly IFR if you are not sure of the surrounding terrain such as the Sierra Nevada you mentioned. Although it may take longer due to the routing that the controller on delivery gives you it keeps you at a lower risk factor. The way I look at it when flying around terrain is, VFR (Very Freaky Road) IFR (Indefinite Freaky Roads). However, at least with IFR you have the advantage of following an assigned altitude that gets you above the scary terrain. :o As with real aviation and flight planning what I am learning is, be sure of your planning. If you are not concrete in your mind about the airspace, surrounding terrain, traffic density (busy), re-plan your flight or skip flying i.e the go n go. Best of luck with your triangle of FBO's in SOCAL. :)
I am a pylit
I am a puylt
I am a pylut

I LOVE TO FLY!
kullery
Posts: 398
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:13 am
Location: Medina, OH

Re: Need help with flight planning

Post by kullery »

For what it's worth, 66CA is technically outside of the PE coverage area, but it likely makes little difference since it is non-towered. Not sure if that impacts the ability to pick up an IFR clearance from there, but if you can depart VFR, I assume you could pick it up in flight.
Ken Ullery - PPL-SEL, 1G5
cruster
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 4:57 am

Re: Need help with flight planning

Post by cruster »

I appreciate the replies and suggestions. After much googling, I came across a comprehensive document that shows the VFR corridors through the Panamint and Isabella MOAs, including the Trona Gap (page 2-4). They even show KBTY on their tiny little graphic. It also shows those MOAs as being ATCAA from FL180 up.

Googling also turned up a 'preferred' (or at least common) VFR route through the Trona Gap. Combining the two, I came up with this route for the KBTY/CA97 pair.

The MU2 likes to cruise up around FL200. The JS32 would be fine, there as well. I wonder if I can file IFR using that route (maybe omitting the Gorman VOR) at FL180. I mean, would that be a realistic (real world) solution? One issue with using those airframes, though, is that CA97 is a grass strip. The MU2 is designed for unimproved, short runways, but I'm not sure the JS32 would be a good fit. Based on the jobs generated by the FBOs, though, I'm fine with the Moo.
kullery wrote:For what it's worth, 66CA is technically outside of the PE coverage area, but it likely makes little difference since it is non-towered. Not sure if that impacts the ability to pick up an IFR clearance from there, but if you can depart VFR, I assume you could pick it up in flight.
I was aware of that when I picked that FBO up. I figured I could just depart 66CA without control (if you've ever seen me fly...), then contact ATC once I get in to ZLA space. Rancho San Simeon isn't really that far north of the space, right? My hope was that PE would expand to ZOA (I think 66CA is in ZOA Zone 10) in the near future, so it was a bit of 'future proofing' on my part to include it. :)
cruster
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 4:57 am

Re: Need help with flight planning

Post by cruster »

Thought I would post an update. I settled on a slightly different route that avoided the R spaces and gave it a whirl tonight, flying VFR.

I was using a BE33 and didn't really want to try and go over the ridges and mountains, so I did some hand-flying through the canyons instead. About half way through the Trona Gap I requested flight following and had an absolute blast the rest of the way. Did some sight-seeing west of Castaic and Val Verde while I was at it. Whoever was covering ZLA, Santa Barbara and Mugu approaches was great. Thanks!

Pros:

My route works, but requires a bit of effort around the mountains and canyons
Thinking the controller and community expect real-world levels of professionalism/realism forced me to be sharp with my aviating and navigating
Seeing the fighters ripping around out by China Lake (they looped around me) and Palmdale was a blast
All the other traffic...wow!

Cons:

Forgot the BE33 can't take max pax with more than about 30% fuel load. I had five NOAA staff needing to get to CA97, but managed to leave four behind due to load limits. Dumb.
I think I'm addicted now
stevekirks
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:00 pm
Location: KSGF
Contact:

Re: Need help with flight planning

Post by stevekirks »

cruster wrote:Cons:

Forgot the BE33 can't take max pax with more than about 30% fuel load. I had five NOAA staff needing to get to CA97, but managed to leave four behind due to load limits. Dumb.
I think I'm addicted now
I've done that (sadly) more than once and it's so disappointing. Welcome to the FSE party!
Steve Kirks (sKirks on Twitch)
KSGF--I-10 rated
Student Pilot
I invented the Alphabet Challenge, what's your excuse?
Alphabet Challenge
Post Reply