Violation

Interesting ATC clips and situations from PilotEdge

Violation

Postby Orest Skrypuch » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:45 pm

Just listening to some of the audios, right off the bat on this one, you can kind of feel the hair stand up on your neck ...

http://www.pilotedge.net/recordings/hou ... _17510.mp3 :shock:

I gather the flight route, was more or less as in the attached.

Well, we all screw up, good to shake off the rust here, rather than "out there".

* Orest
Attachments
Bravo_violation_sm.jpg
Bravo_violation_sm.jpg (79.43 KiB) Viewed 4008 times
PP/ASEL/IR, Piper Dakota (PA28-236) C-FCPO
President & CEO, UVA, http://www.united-virtual.com
Orest Skrypuch
 
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Re: Violation

Postby Keith Smith » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:05 pm

Orest,

Yes and no. If this was a real world clip, then I would agree 100%. However, I think your post assumes that everyone who flies here is post-solo or beyond in terms of their training, and that just isn't the case.

My observation is that 99% of the people that are here are here for the right reasons, however, not everyone within that same 99% are necessarily executing at the post-solo student pilot level or beyond. As a result, the nature of the errors that are made here don't always reflect the errors that are made in real life.

That doesn't mean the recordings aren't valuable, and that we can't all learn something by listening to them, however, I disagree that this is a case of a pilot knocking off the rust here rather than out there (which would be a good thing, I agree!). Instead, this is a pilot still forging the metal....it hasn't even had time to get rusty yet :) This is a pre-solo student who was just not familiar with the airspace in which he was flying. You are right, though, it's still valuable to listen to, and we can all learn from it.

I actually had a Bravo violation myself (r/w) well after I got my PPL. This recording definitely took me back to that, and in that sense, it did make my few remaining hairs stand up. In my case, it was excellent evidence of the accident chain theory...a seemingly endless list of small factors that all added up to a big mistake. For more info, check Leg 7 on this flight log.
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Re: Violation

Postby Kyle Rodgers » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:33 am

Keith,

Sorry to get a little off topic here but, I took a look at your link and there were way too many coincidences to pass up. HEF is near where I grew up. I'm guessing you were on the HYPER/DELRO, so you flew right over the house I currently live in. I met Roscoe a while back when I was a PUBNAT'er to be a controller (in '09), and he'll be at my housewarming party tomorrow. He and I flew out to Ocean City back in August for a few hours, where he mentioned going out there previously with "a pilot with a Lancair 360" and that you all went into town for dinner. I went to Tech for college, so I flew the ROA-HEF route a couple times. And finally, I'm now out of JYO, and fly to CHO way too much for my own good. Crazy...

Approaching ROA from anywhere North of the field is a bear because of the mountains. I'd actually say Tech is a little more forgiving on the terrain, but that's because I've flown into both and am very familiar with where it all is. Without that knowledge, I definitely would've headed for ROA, too.

And a final note, that shelf over GAI is terrible isn't it? The chart doesn't show it too well, all mixed in with everything else, and so close to the SFRA indication, it doesn't stand out. It was more obvious when we has the ADIZ instead of the SFRA.
Kyle Rodgers
Kyle Rodgers
 
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Re: Violation

Postby Orest Skrypuch » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:44 am

I didn't mean to sound overly critical. Whether, getting the rust off, or forging new metal, PE is a great place to do it. The pilot/student (and we are all students) in question is going about it the right way, and taking advantage of a great resource.

I also think the controller handled it just right, besides informing the pilot he also went on (off clip) to suggest places to look up the complex airspace.

* Orest
PP/ASEL/IR, Piper Dakota (PA28-236) C-FCPO
President & CEO, UVA, http://www.united-virtual.com
Orest Skrypuch
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:06 am

Re: Violation

Postby Orest Skrypuch » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:05 am

check Leg 7 on this flight log.


I love your flight log page. Really nicely done.

* Orest
PP/ASEL/IR, Piper Dakota (PA28-236) C-FCPO
President & CEO, UVA, http://www.united-virtual.com
Orest Skrypuch
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:06 am

Re: Violation

Postby Keith Smith » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:21 am

Thx, there's a decent video there, too (below the two youtube vids), requires the DIVX player, though.

I didn't think you were being overly critical of the clip. I was only letting you know that people are at different stages, and therefore the gravity of the error isn't necessarily as severe, if that makes any sense :)
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