"careen to the ramp via Alpha" and others

Interesting ATC clips and situations from PilotEdge

"careen to the ramp via Alpha" and others

Postby Keith Smith » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:22 pm

http://assets.pilotedge.net/recordings/ ... _17510.mp3
@30 sec mark: rudder becomes inop for a student pilot (he's actually going for his PPL in the next few weeks, he's been practicing on the network regularly). ATC instruction: "careen to the ramp via Alpha."

@ 2:28 shortcut offered to N2RK who is flying from TOA-CMA via a circuitous TEC route, "what, you didn't want to fly for the next 20 minutes and still end up 6 feet away from Torrance?"

@7:00 N2RK cleared to land at CMA. Weather is horrible (OVC003, low vis, mist and smoke, presumably due to nearby forest fire). ATC wonders if the entire airport is on fire at this point. Pilot is surprised that he doesn't have smoke in the cockpit, so the controller pushes that exact failure and moments later, his virtual cockpit is indeed filled with smoke.
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Re: "careen to the ramp via Alpha" and others

Postby RyanK » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:56 pm

That was awesome Keith! I was N252RK, and I have the whole thing on video as part of a project I'm working on with a local flight school. I'll upload and share when it's ready. That Torrance departure routing has some instructional value, so I almost rejected your generous shortcut. In the end I figured explaining it on the ground was good enough, and the shortcut itself has value. My X-Plane ATIS was calling OVC002 at CMA. I initiated the missed at the DH of 250, and while adding power dropped below the deck (DH is a decision height, you're allowed to go slightly below as you transition) and picked up the runway for just a second. I was very tempted to chop the power then and land. Really fun flight!
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Re: "careen to the ramp via Alpha" and others

Postby HRutila » Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:47 pm

RyanK wrote:I initiated the missed at the DH of 250, and while adding power dropped below the deck (DH is a decision height, you're allowed to go slightly below as you transition)

Is there a source for that?
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Re: "careen to the ramp via Alpha" and others

Postby sellener777 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:09 am

Some hint of guidance may be gleamed from the ATP-Airplane PTS task "F"

It seems to allow you to go below DA while executing the missed.
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Re: "careen to the ramp via Alpha" and others

Postby sellener777 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:11 am

image.png
Task f
image.png (265.52 KiB) Viewed 4201 times
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Re: "careen to the ramp via Alpha" and others

Postby RyanK » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:41 am

Thanks sellener, that's the most direct reference. The AIM definitions themselves also suggest that a DA is not a hard floor, but a point at which the missed is initiated. Also the instrument ACS sets a +100', -0' limit on MDAs, but puts no such restriction on a precision approach. Instead it says "Initiate the missed approach procedures at the DA/DH, when the required visual references for the runway are not unmistakably visible and identifiable." My example may have made is sound like I went 50 feet below, but it really was less than 20, just the amount that momentum carried me below while adding power and pitching for the climb.

Decision Altitude (DA). A specified altitude in the precision
approach at which a missed approach must be initiated
if the required visual reference to continue the approach
has not been established...

Minimum Descent Altitude (MDA). The lowest altitude,
expressed in feet above mean sea level, to which descent
is authorized on final approach or during circle-to-land
maneuvering in execution of a standard instrument
approach procedure where no electronic glide slope is
provided.

Edit: Also, 91.175c makes a distinction: "no pilot may operate an aircraft...below the authorized MDA or continue an approach below the authorized DA/DH unless..."
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Re: "careen to the ramp via Alpha" and others

Postby HRutila » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:21 pm

Cool, glad to have those references. When you spend so much time in Cessnas and Pipers, descending below DA on a missed isn't done very routinely, but looks like it certainly will happen in larger planes.
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Re: "careen to the ramp via Alpha" and others

Postby jx_ » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:04 pm

The pilot goes missed at the DH, and the airplane is certified to level off within 50 feet below DH during the missed maneuver. CAT3 airplanes (50 foot or less minimums) are allowed to touch the pavement as long as they are nose up and engines spooled prior to touchdown.

It's the certification of your airframe that protects you....assuming you do the go around procedure correctly and timely.
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