VFR TEST 3: I got a DOWN Today and I Deserved it...

[Talan2000]

Pilots,

Attempted my VFR3 Checkride today and as the title says, I failed. Truth is I failed before I even took off, or started X-plane due to poor cockpit management choices.

The Facts:
Carenado BE36, VMC. 12/20/2014. (Random failures accidentally enabled.)
KSNA-KSMO-KTOA VFR Flightplan filed.
Transited Mini-route SE bound at 3500 vice 2500 as directed by ATC
Poor Cockpit Management
Lack of PROFICIENCY with aircraft equipment - specfically Autopilot operation & transponder squawk selection

Thrilling Details:
Successfully transited Class B NW bound via Coastal Route at 6500. Not without mistakes, but I hadn't gotten the down yet.
Attempting to transit SE with Mini Route. Lateral nav was perfect. VNAV = Fail. ATC contacted me at KLAX and asked my altitude. That's Weird I say to myself just as I key the mike to say "2 Thousand Five H-Oh-S*@#@*....THREE Thousand 500....". The virtual IP leaned over and told me, "That's it. You're a co-pilot. I have the controls...'Roger, you have the controls', I squeek."

I know what you are thinking. Dummy. Didn't brief the route properly. It's pretty darn clear that you are to be at 2500! Sigh, go play Call of Duty...

And it's true - all responsibility for failure is mine PIC until IP downed me---but I wasn't at 3500 intentionally...hmm maybe you say...how'd you get there.. Truthfully, I have NEVER been more astonished in the air. How could I have been at 3500??

I'm still not certain but I KNOW I set the Autopilot for 2500 (Audience groans, yeah right).

N3298S_BE36VFR3TestFail.JPG (272.46 KiB) Viewed 6839 times

The AP killed me! It's still my fault but how did this happen? You can see 2490 is commanded and was commanded 10 miles ago(I find it so hard to roll the knobs in flight! so close enough) AP is on. ALT button is illuminated. WHY is it holding me at 3490??? My fault not to notice of course, but my despair is shifting into righteous indignation!

Has anyone else had weird behavior with the AP in a Carenado BE36? I also observed that it never would display the Vertical Speed in the AP display itself. I was gettnig some anemic climbs and smashed the UP button repeatedly and similarly the down button leaving 6500 after my NW Coastal transition and descent to 2500, um 3500...I'm guessing I may have been in an unknown mode or was it just a malfunction? Ive seen videos where the Vertical speed is displayed properly...

An observation -- look at my view. I'm supposedly flying VFR but I am completely COMPLETELY heads down. Thank God I didnt learn to fly like this as a student pilot. Sims guys have a huge challenge keeping their heads out of the cockpit... I don't know what to do about the problem of obsessing with these displays and NOT looking out the airplane. I could have been 500 ft below an A380 and I would never have seen it - so focused on moving map, frequencies, and reporting...FLY THE PLANE.

Of course the capper to the flight was my brakes locking up on landing (they do this EVERY DAMN TIME) immobilizing me on the tarmac..anyone know how to fix this? Yoke is set to "hold brakes" not parking brake or max brake...

Thanks for the feedback. I have a few questions from the flight I'll throw out later...onward! again.. to v3.

Todd


Major Contributing factors:

Co-pilot (age 3)
Co-pilot grabbed the yoke and pulled the idle mixture to off. I restarted the engine and he then pulled the throttle to zero.
Co-pilot demanded "stop talking like that daddy" repeated in 2nd half of flight.
Co-pilot grabbed mouse hand and would not release as I tried to change frequencies, tune radios.
Co-pilot smashed keyboard keys at random
Co-pilot demanded I put on his shoes.

Passenger (age 10 months)
Cried inconsolably just out of reach in her seat in the passenger cabin from KSMO to KTOA.

So There You have it- Human factors -
Lack of familiarity with avionics. Lack of familiarity with environment.

My fault completely...with a few mitigating factors.

In all seriousness - the failed before takeoff reference from my intro is b/c barring some weird AP malfunction, the cause was me incorrectly operating the AP. Deciding to take off (and on a check ride none-theless) KNOWING that "the Co-Pilot" was on the loose and the passenger was liable to wake up prior to landing...so it goes in the world of Walter Mitty -- any and all feedback welcomed.

AREAS OF CONFUSION:
1. KSNA Departure climb SOCAL Handoff -- Told to "Resume VFR Navigation (something somehting)" "Huh, ok...I guess I should squawk 1200 since I'm not in C or B...apparently not. ATC scolds...What's the deal hear with "resume own nav (freq chang approved) vs resume VFR navigation (keep squawking etc).

1A. What does filing a VFR flight plan get me? ATC didn't seem to know anything about my intentions - at least SOCAL APP/DEP controlling the B. I didn't seem to have any more info about me in the system than a popup VFR contact.

2. VFR Cruising altitudes. 1) are they mandatory at all times (above 3000AGL) (pretty sure yes) or are they discretionary ? Why do I ask? -- I somehow thought 5500 was ok to go through the VFR corridor NW cuz the chart said "available altitudes 5500 and 6500" -- didn't specify a required altitude. Note that the Mini-route is 2500 both ways so why wouldn't 5500 both ways be ok? That's what I was thinking anyway...climbed to 6500 at ATC direction would do 6500 next time.

3. ATC forgot about me a bit (I think) leaving the NW Coastal route...I was at 6500 and really didn't want to dive down to KSMO which I originally intended to bounce at. I called her, and she released me and told me to "remain clear of the B" Seems like she should have said "Exit the B" -- as at that point I was definitely still IN the B's outer ledge (50/100). I wondered if it was a V3 trick so I went out of my way to say that I was still in B but would exit and didn't squawk 1200 until I was below. [A minor quibble not really worth mentioning but I want to be clear on things and didn't want to accidently violate B (later to be proven irrrelevant)...

4. When I was busted at 3500 I wasn't sure if I should dive to 2500 or stay at 3500 - I expected ATC to give me that directive instead he told me I had been told to stay at 2500 -- in my mind "that's the past baby" and the focus should have been what do you want me to do now before I file my NASA report? I dove on my own...

I don't think I can bare to listen to the tape just yet -- maybe tomorrow.

Todd

[Vincent Meier]

AREAS OF CONFUSION:
1. KSNA Departure climb SOCAL Handoff -- Told to "Resume VFR Navigation (something somehting)" "Huh, ok...I guess I should squawk 1200 since I'm not in C or B...apparently not. ATC scolds...What's the deal hear with "resume own nav (freq chang approved) vs resume VFR navigation (keep squawking etc).
ATC gave you a code because you are using the VFR routes, you should never change Squawk codes unless told by ATC. They need to track you. Freq change approved means you can leave that radio freq if needed or if told by ATC to contact someone else.

1A. What does filing a VFR flight plan get me? ATC didn't seem to know anything about my intentions - at least SOCAL APP/DEP controlling the B. I didn't seem to have any more info about me in the system than a popup VFR contact.
The only reason to file VFR is so you can track it on PEAware - ATC cannot see the file anyway.

2. VFR Cruising altitudes. 1) are they mandatory at all times (above 3000AGL) (pretty sure yes) or are they discretionary ? Why do I ask? -- I somehow thought 5500 was ok to go through the VFR corridor NW cuz the chart said "available altitudes 5500 and 6500" -- didn't specify a required altitude. Note that the Mini-route is 2500 both ways so why wouldn't 5500 both ways be ok? That's what I was thinking anyway...climbed to 6500 at ATC direction would do 6500 next time.
The VFR altitudes are mandatory as you say above 3000 and/or using a VFR route through airspace. When flying a transistion the only time you should deviate from this is if the ATC tells you to or they cut you loose after leaving the Bravo - Resume own VFR Navigation.
The Coastal route is 6500 NB and 5500 SB. This is a firm fact. It is to keep separation of N and S bound traffic. Check the side notes on the VFR sectionals for transistioning using the Coastal and Mini Routes.

3. ATC forgot about me a bit (I think) leaving the NW Coastal route...I was at 6500 and really didn't want to dive down to KSMO which I originally intended to bounce at. I called her, and she released me and told me to "remain clear of the B" Seems like she should have said "Exit the B" -- as at that point I was definitely still IN the B's outer ledge (50/100). I wondered if it was a V3 trick so I went out of my way to say that I was still in B but would exit and didn't squawk 1200 until I was below. [A minor quibble not really worth mentioning but I want to be clear on things and didn't want to accidently violate B (later to be proven irrrelevant)...
She would have to answer this one to get both sides of the story.

GREAT STORY!!

[Marcus Becker]

AREAS OF CONFUSION:
1. KSNA Departure climb SOCAL Handoff -- Told to "Resume VFR Navigation (something somehting)" "Huh, ok...I guess I should squawk 1200 since I'm not in C or B...apparently not. ATC scolds...What's the deal hear with "resume own nav (freq chang approved) vs resume VFR navigation (keep squawking etc).

Vince answered above. To reiterate, "resume own/VFR navigation" does not mean "radar services terminated. Squawk and maintain VFR." Until you hear "Radar services terminated" keep you transponder code please.

1A. What does filing a VFR flight plan get me? ATC didn't seem to know anything about my intentions - at least SOCAL APP/DEP controlling the B. I didn't seem to have any more info about me in the system than a popup VFR contact.

Anytime you are VFR, you really should say your intentions. Filing VFR doesn't do much of anything for ATC.

2. VFR Cruising altitudes. 1) are they mandatory at all times (above 3000AGL) (pretty sure yes) or are they discretionary ? Why do I ask? -- I somehow thought 5500 was ok to go through the VFR corridor NW cuz the chart said "available altitudes 5500 and 6500" -- didn't specify a required altitude. Note that the Mini-route is 2500 both ways so why wouldn't 5500 both ways be ok? That's what I was thinking anyway...climbed to 6500 at ATC direction would do 6500 next time.

Here's an article from 2005 that still makes great sense today: VFR Cruising Altitudes
Looking at the rule discussed in this article, you should see that westbound travel should have an even altitude so you should have been at 6500 as described on the LAX TAC. The miniroute is 2500 for both directions. Something you may not know is that only one aircraft may operate on the miniroute at a time. Kind of hard to go nose to nose with another if you're the only one on it.

3. ATC forgot about me a bit (I think) leaving the NW Coastal route...I was at 6500 and really didn't want to dive down to KSMO which I originally intended to bounce at. I called her, and she released me and told me to "remain clear of the B" Seems like she should have said "Exit the B" -- as at that point I was definitely still IN the B's outer ledge (50/100). I wondered if it was a V3 trick so I went out of my way to say that I was still in B but would exit and didn't squawk 1200 until I was below. [A minor quibble not really worth mentioning but I want to be clear on things and didn't want to accidently violate B (later to be proven irrrelevant)...

I can't really answer for the controller but I can speculate a little. You claim ATC forgot about you. Think of the VFR transitions as a concrete tunnel that allow passage from one side of the Bravo to the other. To enter the airspace via a transition, you have to enter these tunnels from the outside of the Bravo airspace and exit the tunnel all the way on the other. There is no climbing or descending while using them. If you hadn't exited the coastal route transition (almost 6 miles north of SMO), ATC isn't going to have you resume your own navigation with a VFR descent as your still in the Bravo airspace. Once you are clear, ATC should inform you that you are clear of the Bravo airspace and you may resume your own navigation. If you think you are clear, a simple question to your controller will clear that up. Until then, fly the procedure. Again, you said you squawked 1200. Absolutely don't until you hear, "Radar services terminated".

4. When I was busted at 3500 I wasn't sure if I should dive to 2500 or stay at 3500 - I expected ATC to give me that directive instead he told me I had been told to stay at 2500 -- in my mind "that's the past baby" and the focus should have been what do you want me to do now before I file my NASA report? I dove on my own...

If you don't get what you expect, the only thing I can say is ask. When you start guessing, that's when you get into trouble. "Los Angeles tower, N123AB. Do you want me to descend to 2500 or turn northbound to exit the Bravo?" I can guarantee you that at least 99% of the time, you will get an answer that will put both you and the controller on the same page and relieve frustration on both sides of the microphone.

Don't give up. This is a place to learn. Better to do it here than in the air.

[Talan2000]

Vince and Marcus,

If I had your setup Vince, there's no way my SA would be so poor! Impressive. Jealous...

Thanks for the feedback. Yep, I'm with you on (almost) all points.

I confused myself on the Departure/climb thinking "oh I guess they are intentionally going to make me drop ATC flight following THEN call to pick it up over the ocean prior to the bridge." To a rookie it's a pretty fine distinction to "resume VFR navigation" vs "resume OWN Navigation" - of course the "freq change approved is the key thing" - I created my own hybrid. Stay on freq Squawk 1200 Cleared up in four button clicks.

Tried to do the same thing NW at 5500 by being too literal on the Coastal route directions - which I can assure you I pored over...In my quest for clarity, I think the FAA should explicitly STATE Transit the coastal rout NW at 6500 and SE at 5500. Why leave it vague "5500 and 6500" available. I was thinking that ok this is a special B corridor so maybe VFR transitions don't apply and in any case if ATC lets me in a 5500 I'm good.

As to the B, I think it was just a minor ATC goof to release me a teeny bit early. GPS and VOR/DME showed me inside the top shelf by a mile I'd guess when she told me I was clear and to remain clear. Not a biggie at all. The "claim" of being forgotten is backed up by two calls into ATC. I had initially thought I would descend into Santa Monica and do a touch and go and wanted to get permission to descend early...as I cruised along I thought better of it-- TOO BUSY. And she just ultimately released me.

As an aside, that's why I wanted 5500 NW to begin with - I didn't want to dive down to get to Santa Monica - most of my real world time has been 3500 AGL or below so I guess it is an old mindset that 6500 is way way up there (it is in a 152!).

As to clarifying ATC, you're right again, I explicitly asked him - after he issued the "you have not passed" do you want me to go to 2500 NOW? I think actually he expected me to disconnect on the spot rather then finish the flight under my black cloud of shame

I wanted to retake the checkride last night - about midnight my time when my co-pilot was soundly asleep, but decided to fly in controlled airspace testing the AP to get better familiar. This was good headwork as flying tired through B would not likely end well...I know there are some bugs in the autopilot. I will watch it like a hawk. I had aspired to fly "well trimmed" without AP but I can't do it in this airspace and in a sim environment where it is so hard to tune the frequencies 121.000, 121.005, 121.0010 takes me FOREVER! When I pass I may try to do it without GPS...

I'm going to do it again today - and PASS by golly by flying the airplane and triple checking the altitude and hopefully catching the OTHER thing

Todd
N3298S

Now if only I could figure out why the heck my brakes lock up almost every full stop landing - the plane gets glued to the tarmac and full power won't move it. Frequently L or R brake acts as if it is locked/flat. I sat at KPSP for 15 min trying to figure it out. Then poof - as if the brakes had cooled - I could taxi again...No idea.

[Jorge Rojas]

I was the controller on at the time covering all the towers.

The reason I didn't tell you what to do when you said you were at 3,500 is because you had failed the test at that point. Pilots sometimes disconnect at that time and retry from the start, instead of continuing to their destination. Disconnecting after failing is certainly not the expectation, though. After finding out your intentions, I issued the bravo transition. I would have issued an instruction of what to do more promptly if there was traffic that was a factor because of your altitude.

[Talan2000]

Thanks Jorge,

Winners never quit - they file NASA reports

Todd

[Marcus Becker]

Tried to do the same thing NW at 5500 by being too literal on the Coastal route directions - which I can assure you I pored over...In my quest for clarity, I think the FAA should explicitly STATE Transit the coastal rout NW at 6500 and SE at 5500. Why leave it vague "5500 and 6500" available. I was thinking that ok this is a special B corridor so maybe VFR transitions don't apply and in any case if ATC lets me in a 5500 I'm good.

You're in luck! The FAA does explicitly state that. It's just in two different places.
FAR 91.159
Coastal Route

As you can see, west bound travel would require 6500 per the FAR and altitude restrictions on the Coastal Route diagram. While you are correct that it would be easier if the FAA would put them together in one place, easy isn't what the government is after.

Keep at it and better luck next time.

[Talan2000]

Marcus,

LOL. Yes indeed. Easy is not what the government produces...I doubt many pilots tote around a copy of the FAR in the cockpit. The Sectional + TAC should have all the info you need at a glance. The "5500-6500 Altitudes available" is ambiguous. I seem to excel at finding hidden ambiguity alas.

Todd

Allright Passed the Checkride today. Time to start working on the cloud card. Even got off the runway without the brakes locking up -- made sure I barely touched them and landed sloooow.

Only Goof - Calling Torance Tower Zamperini Tower. Lesson Learned - the Airport Diagram has the specific name to use for each position. I had thought either was acceptable in a dual name field (my only experience had been John Wayne, er, Orange County...another inconsistency I guess...one airport uses the honorific the other doesn't.

Other ODD THING: After exiting NW of the B and descending to prep for the Mini Route. I COULD NOT get the COM1 radio to tune in 120.1 !! I said to myself - you have got to be kidding me, do I have carbon monoxide poisoning?I clicked and clicked and couldn't get it to tune the .100. Thankfully it worked fine on COM2 and later worked with other freqs but I have No idea what happened. Anybody else have problems with coms? First the A/P then the COMM1! Only on checkrides...

[wmburns]

The AP killed me! It's still my fault but how did this happen? You can see 2490 is commanded and was commanded 10 miles ago(I find it so hard to roll the knobs in flight! so close enough) AP is on. ALT button is illuminated. WHY is it holding me at 3490??? My fault not to notice of course, but my despair is shifting into righteous indignation!

Has anyone else had weird behavior with the AP in a Carenado BE36? I also observed that it never would display the Vertical Speed in the AP display itself. I was gettnig some anemic climbs and smashed the UP button repeatedly and similarly the down button leaving 6500 after my NW Coastal transition and descent to 2500, um 3500...I'm guessing I may have been in an unknown mode or was it just a malfunction? Ive seen videos where the Vertical speed is displayed properly...

I just purchased the Carenado BE58. I'm having some "issues" learning so I may not be able to help. But I see that the AP unit is the same (KFC224).

I'm having trouble reading all of the data from the screen shot. On the KFC224 display what does it say just below "ALT 0,000"?

In the cases where I have gotten the AP to work, I use the AP alt sel knob to set the desired alt in the window. Then press the ARM key. The UP/DOWN buttons allows you to adjust to a desired pitch. For example pitching for Vy speed (best rate of climb). Upon reaching the altitude in the window, the AP should switch to altitude hold mode.

In my case, it will not display the vertical speed until the VS key is pressed.

Can you explain the procedure that you used to set the altitude hold at 2,500? Perhaps you "thought" this was affecting the AP but instead is just a PFD "bug" reminder.

When I first got the Carenado BE58 I did some offline flying to just "push buttons" to see what happened. So I'm no expert on Carenado aircraft.

[Talan2000]

Well Mr. Burns,

On the BE36 it has a gorgeous "Aspen Avionics" PFD that is linked directly to the A/P. Setting the ALT on A/P console or by using the knobs on the Aspen let you set the alt.

Short answer. It's a buggy/confusing system as executed by Carenado. I even found a link on another board from the programmer of the AP who said it didn't work as advertised (2011). For example. I found that I COULD get VPS speeds IF I clicked and held (dragged) the A/P knob but NOT if I pushed the up / down buttons. As you note, there is probably a different modebut the limited paragraph of documentation is not at all clear. If I used up/down I could see impact on the VSI. I want more specific AUTO piloting more than mashing up/down. I want to set a specific Vertical speed on the A/P and have it display in the A/P as its supposed to . I(mostly) could do this IF I used the click drag teechnique (but not hot spot clicking).

Anyhow it seems you should dial in the desired alt on the right knob (using click to drag). Then ARM the a/p, THEN press v/s. THEN set the desired Vertical speed (again using click to drag).

This mostly worked -- except when I tried to descend. I couldn't get it to set more than -200, or even GO negative as I dragged that mouse all over the place. Very off putting. Somehow I got it to work and descended to 3500. then 2400 2600 2500
Another aside it's very challenging to get the little "hand icon" to pop up for the Aspen and that's critical as that is required to PUSH the darn Mode/Sync buttons.

Anyway - short answer. I don't totally trust the systems, but I did a maintenance check flight to KPSP last night and became comfortablee enough to attempt V3.

Oddly the Altimeter indicated 2400 when the a/p was dialed into 2500 today! I couldn't believe it ! nearly turned off AP. set 2600 in and it popped to 2600 then forced down to 2500. Of course all of this happens as I am directly over LAX! Hilarious. Not.

I'm a bit wary of Carenado now ...about to purchase a couple more before the sale expires. Sure do look pretty ..but weird behaviors sometimes with the systems. Or is it X-Plane? dunno