Mini Route frequency change...

[Bidimus]

I have a question about the mini route. One of our VA pilots made this mistake today and I thought I saw this on one of the videos where they used the mini route. The problem appears to be you exit just on the edge of the Hawthorn class D. So when you exit the mini route and you're handed off to Hawthorn, when do you change frequencies to Torrance. In one of the videos I saw they did a frequency change but I couldn't find where Hawthorn approved it.

[Keith Smith]

At the time you check in with the Hawthorne, I'd let them know you're heading to Torrance. If they get the hint, they'll give you an early frequency change, otherwise you can request one prior to leaving the Delta.

Another option is to wait until you're clear of the Delta at which point the freq change would be at your discretion in any case if you're squawking VFR at that point.

[Peter Grey]

The third option is to climb above the HHR delta (which tops out at 2500').

This has the bonus of also keeping you above the TOA delta as well.

Use altitude to your advantage, this makes it so there there is no time crunch. You have all the time in the world to contact TOA as you won't violate the airspace until you decide to descend.

[Bidimus]

Thanks guys. Those all make a lot of sense.

So here is the clip I've been analysing. It's the Mark Hargrove V-3 demo.
https://youtu.be/hTTC1l4CeOk?t=34m45s

After the mini route he's cleared to transition the Hawthorn Delta. Is he crossing out of the delta before his call to Torrance? It's hard to tell in the video. That may be what was tripping me up.

[RNCTX]

Thanks guys. Those all make a lot of sense.

So here is the clip I've been analysing. It's the Mark Hargrove V-3 demo.
https://youtu.be/hTTC1l4CeOk?t=34m45s

After the mini route he's cleared to transition the Hawthorn Delta. Is he crossing out of the delta before his call to Torrance? It's hard to tell in the video. That may be what was tripping me up.

Rules of thumb:

1) If the controller doesn't give you any restrictions when flying VFR, you don't have any. You can do whatever you like. If something you do conflicts with someone else, he will call you back and give you restrictions. In your linked example he just said "clear to transition" so the airplane is cleared to slow, descend, whatever he needs to do without restrictions.

2) If you're talking to the correct current controller for your position, inbound to a towered airport, you don't really need to know when to switch he will tell you when to call the tower. You should know your position so that in case of lost comms you get inside of that tower's controlled area before doing a lost comms pattern/landing and aren't bouncing back and forth between two different controlled areas, but other than that it's the controller's job to tell you when to switch.



The only exception to these is I generally do call them in the real world when flying VFR and let them know when I'm going to start a descent from cruise altitude if I'm coming down from > 10,000 feet and want to start that descent 50-60 miles out. Yes they'll see it, but it's polite to let them know as it might affect IFR traffic planning on their end when my speed picks up from ~165 knots to ~190 knots. As for when you are obligated to do whatever, all you need to do is pick up the weather/ATIS as soon as possible before you are switched to tower, and be ready for the switch when he tells you to do it.

[Bidimus]

That makes a lot of sense.

1) If the controller doesn't give you any restrictions when flying VFR, you don't have any. You can do whatever you like. If something you do conflicts with someone else, he will call you back and give you restrictions. In your linked example he just said "clear to transition" so the airplane is cleared to slow, descend, whatever he needs to do without restrictions.

To clarify, "clear to transition" includes changing frequencies if needed too? That would certainly make things simpler.

[Keith Smith]

"transition approved" would be the more common phraseology. It would NO permit you to make an early frequency change. The only case where you can leave the frequency "early" is if you hear the controller say "frequency change approved." Otherwise, you need to stay with the Tower controller while in the Delta airspace.

[RNCTX]

That makes a lot of sense.

1) If the controller doesn't give you any restrictions when flying VFR, you don't have any. You can do whatever you like. If something you do conflicts with someone else, he will call you back and give you restrictions. In your linked example he just said "clear to transition" so the airplane is cleared to slow, descend, whatever he needs to do without restrictions.

To clarify, "clear to transition" includes changing frequencies if needed too? That would certainly make things simpler.

Nope, as Kevin said if you're talking to a controller in the air, you can't turn him off until he tells you to.

And there's a reason for that. My home airfield is a good example (KTKI). See how it's juuuuust below the Dallas bravo. Sometimes there's just singles doing touch and goes, sometimes there's the jets that belong to Texas Instruments arriving and departing at ~200-300 knots. If the former, you'll get handed off pretty early and the tower controller will coordinate your entry into the pattern. If the latter, approach will usually hang on to you a bit longer, since they can separate arrivals from departures over a much wider area than the tower can, because that jet will be beyond the tower's airspace in a matter of seconds. It's a matter of traffic separation, the one most capable of doing it is who you will be talking to. And when he can't do it anymore he'll switch you to the one that is.

[Bidimus]

That makes a lot of sense.

1) If the controller doesn't give you any restrictions when flying VFR, you don't have any. You can do whatever you like. If something you do conflicts with someone else, he will call you back and give you restrictions. In your linked example he just said "clear to transition" so the airplane is cleared to slow, descend, whatever he needs to do without restrictions.

To clarify, "clear to transition" includes changing frequencies if needed too? That would certainly make things simpler.

Nope, as Kevin said if you're talking to a controller in the air, you can't turn him off until he tells you to.

K, then I'm really confused. How was he able to change frequencies in the clip I linked without it being a problem? Nearest I can tell he was within the Hawthorn Delta when he did and all he had was "clear to transition".

[Keith Smith]

It might have been a mistake, what's the timestamp on the video where it occurs?