First experiences

Questions and comments about the PE Pilot Training Program
cymrych79
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:29 pm

First experiences

Post by cymrych79 »

Don't ask me why, but Pilotedge seems to have instilled my simming experience with a new sense of realism, complete with a new sense of profound enjoyment and borderline sheer terror!

I'm obviously still building the confidence I need to successfully talk with ATC. Prepare as I might, watch as many training videos as I might or rereading as many training transcripts as I may, I still find myself caught off guard when called by ATC, and I persistently stumble over my words when trying to contact them in return. Some of this is purely just lack of experience; I simply don't know what all I can expect to hear from ATC, so when something unanticipated comes over the radio, it throws me off guard.

Case in point, my V2 test today. I must have flown this thing 15 times off-line, practicing the expected radio calls and changes. Fortunately, I had a master list of all the frequencies I would need (and even a few I likely would not, but you never know), so the freq changes weren't too bad. (Except when my cheap headset decided to act up, but that's a whole different can of worms.) But after requesting Orange Departure from John Wayne to Ontario, and after being cleared for own navigation after climbing out on heading 330, I received a call requesting me to stay west of the final for John Wayne 20R. Well, I wasn't expecting this at all! Found myself figuring out what to say back to the controller and trying to pull up the maps and mentally project a straight line along the final approach path, all at the same time, and I got behind the 8-ball. Eventually SoCal got tired of waiting for me to reply and just vectored me northward until I cleared the Charlie shelf completely. Finally got my act together again, and finished the flight, and was somewhat amazed to have passed the V2. I'll be flying this one a few more times, for the experience and practice and frankly, to just get it right to my own level of satisfaction.

I still find it really odd, my trepidation talking with ATC. I can deliver verbal reports regarding the status of multi-million dollar projects to clients without an issue, including when we might have messed something up and how we'd like to fix it. No sweat. I can interact with my CFI on an immediate, barely-have-to-think level, no problem at all. And when traveling via highways and byways cross country, as I do a lot for my job, I can chat with the truckers on the CB radio all day, and never think twice about it. BUT, you get my at my yoke, listening to a busy controller on Pilotedge talking with a dozen or so other sim-pilots, and my brain goes all squirrelly, I stumble over my words, miss parts of instructions, etc etc.

I guess what I'm saying is: For giving me a shot of adrenaline in my simming, Kudos!! I'm sure I'll get a better feel for all of this with more practice, and in the end, I don't think I've been doing *that* badly overall. The basic concepts are all here, I just need to string them together in a way that doesn't overload my senses. Work smarter, not harder, as the idiom goes. I'm still struggling to get there, but boy! has it been a fun ride so far!

Well done, Pilotedge! Best $20 a month one could spend!
cruster
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 4:57 am

Re: First experiences

Post by cruster »

Agree with your sentiments re: what PE adds to the simming environment.

I'm in a similar, but different situation: I've done several VFR flights, lasting anywhere from 30-120 minutes, across the PE coverage area with Flight Following. Controller hand-offs, checking activity for the military corridor around SBA, frequency changes, pressure readings, traffic advisories, requests to transition the Delta...no problem. 8-) Thinking of doing my V1 test which is just some circuits at a towered field? Terrifying. :oops:
Pieces
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:25 pm
Location: Ely, IA (KCID)

Re: First experiences

Post by Pieces »

Practicing offline is of dubious value. The environment is dynamic, so practicing scripts instills the wrong ideas. Case in point, receiving an unexpected call threw you off.

The best practice is getting in the environment and running with it.
Reece Heinlein, PPL - IR, KMZZ
PilotEdge I-11
Alphabet Challenge
Ryan B
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:37 pm

Re: First experiences

Post by Ryan B »

Pieces wrote:Practicing offline is of dubious value. The environment is dynamic, so practicing scripts instills the wrong ideas. Case in point, receiving an unexpected call threw you off.

The best practice is getting in the environment and running with it.
Totally A-GREED! Get out there an do it!
PE ID: 29
FAA ATCS
FAA PPL ASEL
stealthbob
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:28 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Re: First experiences

Post by stealthbob »

Ryan B wrote:
Pieces wrote:Practicing offline is of dubious value. The environment is dynamic, so practicing scripts instills the wrong ideas. Case in point, receiving an unexpected call threw you off.

The best practice is getting in the environment and running with it.
Totally A-GREED! Get out there an do it!
There is a balance that needs to be recognized however...

Without confidence in primary flight abilities one can get very behind when dealing with ACT and then getting overwhelmed and frustrated enough to think that its not worth it. If you cant fly the plane as required then what is the point.

While I agree that "getting in the environment and running with it" is the best approach to get over the mic fright issues, that notwithstanding, early users may benefit with a little mix of offline flight practice as well to refine their flight sim skills..

I speak of recent experience as I just got into flight sim this winter...
ridikamus
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:37 pm

Re: First experiences

Post by ridikamus »

stealthbob wrote:Without confidence in primary flight abilities one can get very behind when dealing with ACT and then getting overwhelmed and frustrated enough to think that its not worth it. If you cant fly the plane as required then what is the point.
Absolutely true. I did my V ratings, then started studying/practicing for the I-1 and discovered that I can't track a localizer to save my life. So, rather than just turn George on and fake it, I've been working on approaches offline, and will start my I-ratings once I'm comfortable.
V-3 CAT-11 I-11
mm007.emko
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:11 pm

Re: First experiences

Post by mm007.emko »

Similar experience here. Since I had flown only on IVAO over my country (Czech Republic), I had to deal with differences in rules and phraseology. Ability to penetrate Class C and D airspace without explicit clearance - just chat with ATC and you can go - (and if the airspace is "TMA-type" (covering the space between airspace around airport and airways system) even without filing a flight plan in advance!) felt a bit unnatural to me. Same with the English language - the controllers sometimes speak fast and expect fast and fluent response... The "think before asking for clearance" rule didn't work for me - it was more like "grab a pen, write that down and read it to the ATC". :) And opening hours which begin at 5pm my local time + some "horror" stories from pilots that were yelled at kept me from trying to fly on PilotEdge.

After actually watching the workshop videos and trying to join I totally changed my opinion and I'm pleased to donate my 20 bucks :-) . The guaranteed ATC coverage, lots of traffic and controllers who know their airspace well, are helpful (yes, I did some mistakes but I wasn't yelled at, those guys told me how to do it better next time!) and don't disconnect when they see an inbound VFR traffic is just priceless. I'm not going to be a real-world pilot (at least not in Europe) and therefore I appreciate that you accept even the "gamers".
cymrych79
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:29 pm

Re: First experiences

Post by cymrych79 »

stealthbob wrote:
Ryan B wrote:
Pieces wrote:Practicing offline is of dubious value. The environment is dynamic, so practicing scripts instills the wrong ideas. Case in point, receiving an unexpected call threw you off.

The best practice is getting in the environment and running with it.
Totally A-GREED! Get out there an do it!
There is a balance that needs to be recognized however...

Without confidence in primary flight abilities one can get very behind when dealing with ACT and then getting overwhelmed and frustrated enough to think that its not worth it. If you cant fly the plane as required then what is the point.

While I agree that "getting in the environment and running with it" is the best approach to get over the mic fright issues, that notwithstanding, early users may benefit with a little mix of offline flight practice as well to refine their flight sim skills..

I speak of recent experience as I just got into flight sim this winter...
Well, my off-line flights were purely to gain VFR exposure in southern Cali. I have a few thousand hours in-sim, and know the very few aircraft I regularly fly like the back of my hand, at least for VFR flight. What I didn't have was any idea what the world looked like near John Wayne. I just never really spent any time flying in this part of the country. So a couple off-line flights to see what those visual waypoints looked like from my anticipated V2 test altitude seemed like a good idea. I would have hated to have gotten lost on a short little 25 nm flight simply because I lost my bearing while doing other things like chatting with ATC, and confusing one mountain ridge with another, or Chino for Ontario.

But I do agree, off-line flying can take you only so far. As realistic as the weather injection can be made, and as realistic as the engine modeling and flight dynamics can be made for a sim aircraft, the experience off-line will still always lack that final sense of the greater community, of being just 1 flying cog in a network of cogs. I've gotten close a few times while flying with the 91st, and buddies who fly Vatsim tells me they like many aspects of that system too, but PE seems to take it that final step, or at least the final step that can be achieved in sim-world. There's a realism and grittiness in PE that works to make it as real as can be, and to the uninitiated like myself, it can be a little intimidating. Especially knowing that a good percentage of the flyers on PE are RW pilots first, not simmers, unlike flying on Vatsim or with the 91st, where we're almost exclusively weekend armchair flyers (or at least it seems to me, no offense to anyone intended!).

All that aside, the fears and lack of confidence on the mic, I've had nothing but positive experiences with PE's ATC. The controllers seem to modulate their speaking patterns somewhat to match who they're talking with on radio, which is great for us newbies who don't have the ear to keep up with ATC's normal fast pace yet. They've been politely instructive when they need to be, and even when I've heard them really lay into someone, it's never been mean spirited or judgemental. As a learning tool, PE is proving to be great. Believe me, I'd much sooner have silly mental stumbling blocks and a twisted tongue on PE than in the C172 in real life.
RonCraighead
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:23 am
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: First experiences

Post by RonCraighead »

As a real world pilot who flies socal...

I didn't practice the SIM enough! I was screwing up right and left because things that seemed easier in the airplane was clumsy in the sim.

Twisting the knobs on the 430 was a chore until I got used to the clicking or the mouse wheel.

I feel that flying the flights as shown in the sim, tuning the radios and navaids, and even reading the clearances as in the transcript is valuable.

In the Army (we are a special kind of stupid), we call it "Crawl, walk run". Do it the way it's supposed to work, then introduce the curveballs... Then wrench up the stress.

I'm a hack at most of the things I do, but I've seen some pretty elite guys work.... In many arenas. The one thing they all have in common is that they do the BASICS... REALLY well.

And they practice EVERYTHING. In as many conditions as possible.

Good luck all!

Ron
Ron Craighead
VFR and IFR Pilot, High Performance and Complex Endorsement (AT-6 Texan), Tailwheel Endorsement (Cessna 170), Spin Endorsement (Great Lakes) and survived some acro!
FAA Advanced Ground Instructor, Instrument Ground Instructor.
Justin Lerner
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:25 pm
Location: Denver, CO

Re: First experiences

Post by Justin Lerner »

I, too, stumbled into the SNA arrival corridor on my (second) V-2 attempt. As I was reacting to the news from ATC, they suggested I climb which I simultaneously had chose to do. I came back on the freq and asked if 3,500' would be OK and he replied in the affirmative. My first attempt (which didn't count because I had forgotten to notify SNA clearance it was supposed to be an attempt, and thank God because I was not happy with that attempt at all), I accidentally ventured into CNO Delta dodging a cloud that my sim rendered in front of me as I came up on Prado Dam (VPLPD). I dove north right into the Delta, too focused on the rules of VFR to remember the airspace I was in, or to query APP for transition clearance.
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