Question about failed I-2

[Shinjo B]

Hi all - Have a r/w PPL but really really new to the IFR scene. In fact, my IFR training thus far consists of Keith's amazing workshop videos and some flying with my screen full of dials.

Ran into an issue last night as I was working on my I-2. As was expected, the clearance I received was something along the lines of "depart heading xxx (175??), vectors for V23 then as filed".

When I got to V23 I turned (a bit late tbh) onto V23 figuring that the vectors had gotten me to V23 so ... start the as-filed part. As you can imagine I was immediately failed and told that I need to wait to be vectored to join V23.

Having heard that instruction from the controller I guess I understand that I need to wait to be explicitly cleared onto V23, but then the phraseology of "vectors to V23 and then as filed" leaves me scratching my head a bit. I got to V23 and started flying the "as filed part".

So can someone explain or point me to the language that describes what certain phraseology means wrt vectoring? I'd like to be able to study up on this so I can try to avoid these things.

Thanks in advance.

[tngarner]

So a drastic oversimplification of IFR but it keeps most people out of trouble. In IFR, you get to do nothing until you are told to do so.

So in your case fly heading 175. You fly 175 until they tell you to do something else. Technically if you are still in communication you would still fly 175 for 30 min if they did not tell you to turn (extreme example, would not happen or you would ask ATC what was up, but trying to illustrate the point).

Once they vector you "turn heading xxx and join V23 and resume own Nav". Now you got the magic words. You would fly the assigned heading until you can join V23 then you start the rest of your plan or clearance until ATC starts to vector you again, normally close to your destination but not always.

So again way over simplification but hopefully helps for your situation.

[Nelson L.]

"Vectors for V23" describes the heading you were given in the clearance. Unless you were explicitly instructed in the clearance or by the controller to intercept and join V23, you can't deviate from the 175 heading. "As filed" just means that the rest of your route, after V23, is the same "as you filed". It doesn't mean you are allowed to deviate from a heading to fly your filed route. Don't know why they didn't tell you to join V23 (memory says someone somewhere mentioned it had to do with altitudes...), but rest assured that V23 is infamous for aspiring I-2 pilots

[tngarner]

The other favorite that you hear a good bit is when they vector through the localizer and the pilot joins the localizer. Same rule applies, fly the vector until you are told to do something else.

[zengei]

Don't know why they didn't tell you to join V23 (memory says someone somewhere mentioned it had to do with altitudes...)

If I recall the I-2 correctly, you'll cross V23 once then you'll be vectored back around to join it.

[Kyle.Sanders]

There are two parts to this clearance that, from my knowledge, needs to be clarified:

1) Departure Instructions
"On departure- fly heading xxx"
This is a departure instruction, NOT a vector. You received this clearance from delivery and delivery cannot "VECTOR" anyone, they simply can assign pre-coordinated departure instructions.


2) "Expect"
The clearance should have had the word "Expect" in there as in "EXPECT radar vectors to V23". I'm sure if you go pull the tapes, you will hear pretty much that. The controllers are pretty careful to word the clearance correctly because these situations can arise.
To somewhat quote Keith's IFR workshop:
""Expect" has two meanings in the IFR world:
1) Literal. "You can expect (situation)."
2) Incase of lost comms. "the pilot is expected to do this when safe/practical"


The reason they would allow you to fly through the V23 without turning you could be many reasons but more commonly because they need you to reach the MVA or MEA for the area/airway before turning/joining.



(edited to include MVA as a deciding factor for turning an aircraft as Keith has said)

[Keith Smith]

We need to have you at the MVA for the area before we can issue a vector off the 175 heading. That's why you typically have to fly through V23.

[Shinjo B]

Thanks all. Very helpful. The "own navigation" piece was something I'd missed before.