CAT 10 brings up questions

[jiva602]

Hello,

I am not asking for coaching for this particular rating but I do have specific questions about flying in congested airspaces. The route for the CAT 10 provides a good example on which to base my questions but, whoever is willing to weigh in on this, please feel free to use other airspace or experiences to explain since I NOT asking "how to fly the CAT 10".

*When I need to get clear of an airspace before contacting another for clearance (KTOA/KHHR) I see that often this is done vertically and not laterally.
Q: What if the tower is busy, and I need to buy more time and avoid busting the next airspace? I can't simply keep climbing, what is the standard safe (lateral) pattern for holding in this situation?

*This also becomes an issue (perhaps even more urgent) when quickly approaching Bravo airspace
Q: How do I "slow down" or "hold" safely in such a high traffic area if I see that I simply do not have time to request transition/clearance?

What inspired me to ask?

Well, one of the last times I flew on PE, the controllers were extremely busy and it was difficult to get a word in edgewise. Many pilots were stepping on each other, some of the seasoned vets were even getting a little snarky about it.

At any rate, I always attempt to listen to others, develop a mental picture of what's going on, and determine the hierarchy (prioritization) of calls so I know when to jump in. I always try to keep my calls succinct but complete, but sometimes I find myself having to wait almost a minute. One minute at 90+kts is a lot in a seemingly cramped airspace. Suggestions?

Sorry if I am over complicating things but as a novice it is a very real concern. I have an idea of what I might do in these situations but would prefer some concrete advise from the professionals.

Thanks,

Jiva

[Keith Smith]

In the real world, tower controllers work just 1 airport and for the most part are able to have a laser focus on the traffic in their airspace. As a result, in those conditions, you'll get freq changes in a timely fashion, negating the need for evasive action with the next piece of airspace. On PE, it is a bit different because of the nature of the staffing. Still, these are good skills to have.

If you don't get a hand off in time (from TOA heading north towards HHR, for example), then you can exit the airspace vertically without issue. Just climb to ~2700ft, then make 360's to stay outside of the lateral bounds of HHR airspace (so you can setup for the miniroute entry) while you swap to HHR tower. Wait until there is a break in the radio calls, then make your call. You can circle indefinitely, there is no ticking time bomb. Alternatively, you can exit TOA airspace to the east, remaining outside of HHR and LGB airspace, but I would probably use the vertical option as you need to be at 2500ft for the miniroute in any case, so being at 2700ft is not terribly inconvenient.

My guess is that you're concerned because you're under the impression that you MUST go straight from TOA onto the miniroute. That's ideal for efficiency, but it's not a requirement. Once you exit the TOA Delta, do whatever you want in Class E airspace until you and ATC are ready to do the miniroute. If it takes 3-4 minutes to establish contact with HHR because of radio congestion, no problem. Relax, enjoy the view and watch for traffic while you loiter in Class E.

Same thing with Bravo airspace, just circle if needed. Use that PIC authority. ATC shouldn't have a big problem with it as you don't have many other options. Again, they should be giving you freq changes in a timely fashion to avoid this when it comes to routes such as the miniroute.

[jiva602]

Just climb to ~2700ft, then make 360's to stay outside of the lateral bounds of HHR airspace (so you can setup for the miniroute entry) while you swap to HHR tower. Wait until there is a break in the radio calls, then make your call. You can circle indefinitely, there is no ticking time bomb.

I suppose my concern comes from lack of confidence and feeling somehow that "I'm in someone else's way" if I simply circle about as I get everything in order.

How do YOU decide which way to circle (left or right)? Terrain below? Lateral airspace? Best exit direction from circle pattern?

My guess is that you're concerned because you're under the impression that you MUST go straight from TOA onto the miniroute. That's ideal for efficiency, but it's not a requirement. Once you exit the TOA Delta, do whatever you want in Class E airspace into you and ATC are ready to do the miniroute. If it takes 3-4 minutes to establish contact with HHR because of radio congestion, no problem. Relax, enjoy the view and watch for traffic while you loiter in Class E.

Yes, I was assuming that in such a case I just need to "get on with it" and go straight to the Miniroute.

Thanks for much for the clarification; I'm glad I asked.

[Keith Smith]

I wouldn't care which way I circled. Think about it...we're circling to put the brakes on our forward progress towards airspace which requires communication with a controller who we are not yet able to reach. Therefore, the direction in which we turn just isn't relevant, so long as we stay in Class E.

Relax, breathe, and have a plan for the 'quick' version of the flight where everything goes well, but have a plan to allow for the fact that it might not happen. Such a plan would be to climb efficiently to an altitude where you can do your own thing until everything is sorted out. This is a very important part of your PIC authority and responsibility. Take control, don't panic, and rejoice in the fact that you have a thousand options available to you, no matter how busy it is.

[Ryan B]

I think you should panic, activate JATO (on your cessna), and scream upwards to FL600 where you can be VFR again (they'll never see you but you'll be dead )

Or just do what Keith says... don't panic, and have a plan to orbit somewhere above the class D's and below the class B.

[Kyle.Sanders]

^haha!

[jiva602]

@ Ryan

Thanks for reminding me this is just a game

[Keith Smith]

"This is just a game" isn't the message here. The advice being presented would be 100% applicable to a real world flight, just as the anxiety that you're feeling about your virtual flight would be the same in a real world flight if you didn't fully grasp the freedom that you have when flying VFR.

[jiva602]

"This is just a game" isn't the message here. The advice being presented would be 100% applicable to a real world flight, just as the anxiety that you're feeling about your virtual flight would be the same in a real world flight if you didn't fully grasp the freedom that you have when flying VFR.

I was referring to the nature of his reply. Message received, lesson learned, mouth shut.

Thanks,

Jiva

[Keith Smith]

No worries, Ryan always has been a trouble maker