Question about multiple airspaces

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Question about multiple airspaces

Postby toby23 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:07 pm

I would like to better understand the correct process when entering Class C with underlying Class D, as in the image below.
I am planning to approach from the West through the Class C and Class D airspace to enter the pattern at KBUR at approx. 1800 ft.

1. Do I first establish 2 way with KBUR at 20nm and then request a frequency change to KVNY to establish 2-way and then request another frequency change to switch back to KBUR?
2. Who should I contact first?
3. I plan to request VFR flight following/ traffic advisories, would SoCal Approach normally speak to KVNY Tower on my behalf in this 'special' situation or is that not a service provided under traffic advisories
4. Is the pilot always expected to establish 2 way on their own?
5. What happens if I have to enter from the North through the Class E, D and C?

Capture.PNG
Capture.PNG (144.13 KiB) Viewed 302 times


Thanks in advance for your advice and help.
Toby
Last edited by toby23 on Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question about multiple airspaces

Postby Scott Medeiros » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:10 pm

Since you are entering the class C to land at KBUR, you would contact the appropriate SOCAL approach for entry into C. Any time you are under radar control of ATC, the controllers will coordinate and airspace transitions so you may stay on the assigned freq.

If you are not yet communicating with ATC, and plan on entering airspace requiring radio communication (class D,C,B,A), you need to make the initial call to the appropriate controller with who you're calling, who you are, where you are, and what you want.

That's the easiest way to do it, but you could call VNY or WHP tower for a transition, and be handed off to BUR tower as you near their boundary. Using WHP as an example, this risks you flying yourself into a "box" with not a lot of escape routes should you need to avoid entering BUR or VNY airspace.
Last edited by Scott Medeiros on Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question about multiple airspaces

Postby toby23 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:15 am

Any time you are under radar control of ATC, the controllers will coordinate and airspace transitions so you may stay on the assigned freq. If you will be entering airspace requiring radio communication (class D,C,B,A), you need to make the initial call to the appropriate controller with who you're calling, who you are, where you are, and what you want.


Thanks for your explanation but it seems to contradict itself as 'any time you are under radar control of ATC, the controllers coordinate any airspace transitions' but then 'if you enter Class D,C,B,A airspace, you need to make the initial call'.

Does this mean that I can stay on the appropriate SOCAL approach frequency and they will hand me off in good time to the various towers to establish 2 way?
I am struggling to understand how I would make the initial call to another airport if I am tuned to SOCAL approach.

Thank you
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Re: Question about multiple airspaces

Postby zerofay32 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:49 am

Also, transitioning VNY at 1800ft is not a great idea operationally speaking. VNY's pattern altitudes are 1800 and 2000, so climbing up to 2500 or even 3000 (3 would keep you out of the Delta entirely ;) ) would be a nicer option. Flying higher simplifies the airspace considerations, and if you need to descend for any reason before reaching the inner ring, you will only impact the top of the VNY delta (likely east of the runways) and approach will coordinate that for you.
Andrew Fay
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Re: Question about multiple airspaces

Postby toby23 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:16 am

Thanks for your advice Andrew, I appreciate your experienced input.
I was hoping to descend through both airspaces to arrive at the KBUR pattern at 1800 and not to cross through the Class D at 1800 but I don't know how to figure out my exact height at any point on descent through the Class C and D airspaces. Is there a simple formula, if I know my TOD and groundspeed, to figure out my altitude at any point during my descent? This would really help with my planning.
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Re: Question about multiple airspaces

Postby Keith Smith » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:10 am

Does this mean that I can stay on the appropriate SOCAL approach frequency and they will hand me off in good time to the various towers to establish 2 way?
I am struggling to understand how I would make the initial call to another airport if I am tuned to SOCAL approach.


If you're receiving radar service, they are required to coordinate the transition through any Delta airspace on your behalf, unless they give you instructions that will keep you clear of said airspace. So, you don't need to worry about making calls to VNY tower while you're talking to Socal.
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Re: Question about multiple airspaces

Postby Scott Medeiros » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:19 pm

toby23 wrote:
Any time you are under radar control of ATC, the controllers will coordinate and airspace transitions so you may stay on the assigned freq. If you will be entering airspace requiring radio communication (class D,C,B,A), you need to make the initial call to the appropriate controller with who you're calling, who you are, where you are, and what you want.


Thanks for your explanation but it seems to contradict itself as 'any time you are under radar control of ATC, the controllers coordinate any airspace transitions' but then 'if you enter Class D,C,B,A airspace, you need to make the initial call'.

Does this mean that I can stay on the appropriate SOCAL approach frequency and they will hand me off in good time to the various towers to establish 2 way?
I am struggling to understand how I would make the initial call to another airport if I am tuned to SOCAL approach.

Thank you



I should’ve started a new paragraph as the D,C,B,A airspace was a separate thought. I mean if you are not currently speaking to ATC, you need to make that initial call.

Edited to avoid future confusion.
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