want to help plan an IFR flight?

[Keith Smith]

It looks like I'll be taking a fairly long trip in a couple of weeks. I need to fly N07-K24-1H6-N07.

If anyone is interested in taking part in the flight planning process, I'd love to hear the route suggestions.

Constraints:
- planning 197KTAS,
- 8-10k enroute, or lower if the headwinds are obnoxious on the way there.
- range is typically 600nm with reserves
- exit gate from N07 is usually LANNA to ETX, so it's best to plan the trip from ETX VOR
- I'll be /G, but the GPS has been known to be unreliable at times, so I would prefer to remain on airways where possible, but can accept VOR to VOR where airways are not practical, for relatively short stretches

I have a route in mind, but would be happy to take on any suggestions.

[Steve Caffey]

Quickly planned route:
N07 LANNA ETX V162 BOBSS V12 HAR V377 ESL V4 HVQ V115 AZQ V140 LOZ K24 - 574.5nm according to Skyvector

K24 BWG V52 CCT V178 CNG V305 ARG V140 TUL 1H6 - 546.3nm

1H6 TUL V14 VIH V88 TOY V12 SHB KGEZ - 525.7nm (enroute stop)

KGEZ SHB V12 JST V106 SEG V30 ETX V39 SAX N07 - 553.9nm

[Peter Grey]

Hey KS,

Heres my idea.

N07 LANNA ETX V162 HAR V469 THS GRV MGW V35 HVQ V115 AZQ V140 LOZ K24 (Amazingly also 574.5NM)

K24 LVT V140 TUL (546.3 NM). Note I didn't use BWG as the start VOR as you would have to use GPS to get there intially (its 65NM from K24).

I'll get back to you on that last leg.

Edit: Do you have a c129 or c146 TSO GPS?

[Shawn Goldsworthy]

Ok, I'll play too. Here is what I came up with quickly:

N07 LANNA ETX V39 HGR V166 ESL V4 HVQ V115 AZQ V140 LOZ K24 (573.2nm)

PG nailed it for the K24 1H6 leg. I can't come up with anything else.

For the return home:

1H6 TUL V14 TOY V12 DQN KDAY (598.7nm). KIND is another option for a stop if the wind doesn't like you that day.

KDAY DQN V12 JST V106 SEG V6 SBJ N07 (489.3nm)


Will there be prizes for the winner?

[Keith Smith]

Fascinating, you guys shaved > 10nm off the suggested low-airway routing from DUATs on the N07 to K24 leg, with all the action happening prior to ESL.

The prize right now is that the winning outbound route is going to be selected by the r/w N90 Tracon to replace their current preferred route from N07 to K24. Their current play book as a route which is....are you sitting down....1000+ nm. I learned this last time I flew the route, it was unpleasant having to deal with that. Thankfully the next tracon along the way (Allentown, around ETX) gave me my previously filed route.

I haven't had time to analyze the routes you guys posted from K24 onwards...but I look forward to it!

PG, it's a Garmin 420, which complies with TSO C129a.

[Keith Smith]

SX, your first route has a continuity error. No soup for you!

[Keith Smith]

Ok, the winning route for Leg 1 is a modified version of Steven Caffey's.

He posted:
N07 LANNA ETX V162 BOBSS V12 HAR V377 ESL V4 HVQ V115 AZQ V140 LOZ K24

which I simplified to:
N07 LANNA ETX V162 HAR V377 ESL V4 HVQ V115 AZQ V140 LOZ K24

(identical ground track, just removed BOBSS V12 HAR since it was already covered by ETX V162 HAR).

PG, it is really amazing that your route was the same distance, to the 1/10th of a mile, given a different ground track, as you said.

Given the identical distance, I'm electing to use the one which minimizes off-airway routes.

[Steve Caffey]

Ok, the winning route for Leg 1 is a modified version of Steven Caffey's.

He posted:
N07 LANNA ETX V162 BOBSS V12 HAR V377 ESL V4 HVQ V115 AZQ V140 LOZ K24

which I simplified to:
N07 LANNA ETX V162 HAR V377 ESL V4 HVQ V115 AZQ V140 LOZ K24

(identical ground track, just removed BOBSS V12 HAR since it was already covered by ETX V162 HAR).

PG, it is really amazing that your route was the same distance, to the 1/10th of a mile, given a different ground track, as you said.

Given the identical distance, I'm electing to use the one which minimizes off-airway routes.

Looking at it again, you're right of course. I know what happened, the distance bubble on Skyvector covered up the "V162" box and all I saw was the "V12" on that segment. Guess that's what I get for doing that late at night.

It is amazing that PG's route came out exactly the same distance as mine, and that's a good point about BWG being too far. I forgot all about the 40nm typical range. Shh, don't tell my instructor.

[Shawn Goldsworthy]

SX, your first route has a continuity error. No soup for you!

My planning might have been a little too quick.

Laywer: Sir can you state your name for the record

Soup Nazi: Yev Kessem

Lawyer: Can you spell that?

Soup Nazi: NO!

[Keith Smith]

Ok, the two candidates for Leg 2 (K24 - 1H6) are:
Steven C with: BWG V52 CCT V178 CNG V305 ARG V140 TUL
PG & SX with: LVT V140 TUL

I'm going to go with my originally planned route, which is a hybrid: BWG V94 V140 TUL. It's about 10nm shorter than the LVT variant.

PG, I considered exactly the same thing during my initial planning, LVT vs BWG. I reason that:
a) The GPS is occasionally unreliable (actually hasn't had a problem for quite a while now, but has in the past with momentary reception outages), but is not completely unreliable

b) in lieu of GPS, it is reasonable to assume (I think) that I could navigate via radar vectors until within the service volume of BWG. It is in fact commonplace and documented practice for ATC to assign routes that exceed navaid service volumes (just read this recently, wish I could remember where) if radar coverage is known to exist for those portions of the route.

I welcome the discussion on those reasons, though!

So, leg 1 & 2 are sewn up (if PG still feels strongly and can convince me, I'll be changing to his route, LVT V140 TUL, but in either case, that leg is covered now).

Onto the return flight from 1H6 back to N07. New twist in the works, I might be stopping in at Colin Levy's airport for a fuel stop, will decide shortly.