PilotEdge Forums

Hello to All

I have a question in regards to the TEC Route and aircraft classification, specifically between the Baron 58 and Caravan 208B.

The reason I am comparing these 2, is they fly about about the same cruise speed.

This came up while watching a stream on TWITCH, when an IFR route was filed based on speed of the 208 and the Q Classification routing was used.

The controller came back with a routing based on M Classification rather than Q, which 208 is below the 189 knots.

So the question is on the TEC routes no matter the speed of aircraft if the engine is a turbo prop, then file M?

Hope this makes sense

Thanks

Rick S.

yep, M is turboprop, regardless of speed afaik.

Hello,

This is a common area of confusion for controllers and pilots alike.

The reason for this is depending on which document you refer to you end up with slightly different definitions of MPQ aircraft (J really isn't in dispute).

Here are the exact definitions listed in the A/FD.

AIRCRAFT CLASSIFICATION
(J) =Jet powered
(M) =Turbo Props/Special (cruise speed 190 knots or greater)
(P) =Non-jet (cruise speed 190 knots or greater)
(Q) =Non-jet (cruise speed 189 knots or less)

The confusion is if the "(cruise speed 190 knots or greater)" applies to Special or to Turboprops and Special in the M classification and if "non-jet" means non turbojet or non any jet (a turboprop is a type of jet technically).

For the record the C208 has a max cruise speed of 186 KTAS, so it is either a Q or M depending on how you read that conditional.

I've done some more advanced research and determined that the conditional does apply to turboprop and "non-jet" means non turbojet. My reference is some internal FAA documents which I can't provide an easy link to so you'll have to trust me on that one.

So the final answer is the C208 is a Q aircraft.

Obviously our controllers got this one wrong, as it should have been a Q route.It ends up our internal documents went the other way on the confusion so we are revising those documents now.

As to the BE58 it cruises over 190 KTAS so it's actually a P aircraft and would get P routes (which are pretty much always the same as Q routes).

Let me know if you have any questions.

Hmmmm, was that intended though?

I thought some routes were different based on turbo prop, jet, or prop (or faster prop like the P51 Mustang), for climb operations and or altitudes....

Or maybe it was really intended to all be speed based, in which case your Q for caravan is logical.

At one point I was asked to fly a turboprop route because I was flying a turboCHARGED aircraft - obviously that wasn't right and I'm sure it was just an early kink in the otherwise well-oiled machine.

That being said am I correct in filing a P route for the P51D mustang?

I thought some routes were different based on turbo prop, jet, or prop (or faster prop like the P51 Mustang), for climb operations and or altitudes....

Jet and Turboprop routes are commonly very different from other routes (and in some cases each other). However, the P and Q classification routes are normally identical for the purposes of the TEC system.

To check this I did a quick browse of the entire TEC route system, in the entire system the P and Q route never differ in route and altitude.

In terms of are the route classifications I came up with correct, mainly M being turboprop > 190 knots (in the sense that both matter), yes it is using the resources I have available. The simplest check is to look up on flightaware the TEC routes issued to a C208 aircraft, in every case it's the Q route.

A P-51 is a P aircraft.

I think this listing of aircraft types might clarify the confusion here:

J—Jets/Heavy Jets/Heavy.
M—Turbo Prop 190 KTAS or greater.
P—Non-Jet 190 KTAS or greater.
Q—Non-Jet 189 KTAS or less.

This will match the new guidance we are giving our controllers and should prevent further problems in this area.

Great information Peter.

Is it correct to assume that the M, P, or Q determination is based on the speed entered in the flight plan?

For example, I assume that the operator of a C208 with a Blackhawk XP42A STC (or similar) could file at >190 KTAS and therefore be eligible for an M route.

I know that JO 7340.2D associates a Climb and Descent rate with various aircraft type designators. Just want to make sure there isn't some other FAA document which establishes cruise speed by type for this classification purpose.

FYI - TEC Route Search on MyFlightRoute now has a link to this thread to provide quick reference to your clarifications.

Great thread!

Any answer on how the Assigned code can vary with the Cruise speed?

I mistakenly told ATC previously that my King Air C90 cruised at less than 190 -- and it could if I set it there and filed no?

It seems that the assignment comes from the type and not the actual filed airspeed.

Todd

it's hard coded based on the aircraft. There is no way to change it. You can't involuntarily downgrade or upgrade yourself.

Peter Grey wrote:For the record the C208 has a max cruise speed of 186 KTAS, so it is either a Q or M depending on how you read that conditional.

Is there an official source/reference for max. cruise speed? I'm guessing it's related to certification, but I'm not sure which database to check, if any.

I filed the M class route for a new airplane for me, the turbocharged Legacy, cruise 250kts. I was told to that was incorrect. I assume P would be correct?