CTAF callouts considerations

[crum]

Topic for those who flying the CTAF days with us.

Would like to discuss the CTAF callouts considerations. I was taught to make full callouts at each stage except those cases where it's no time to make it that way. The full format is:

• Airfield name - i.e. Banning Traffic
• Callsign or type+callsign (callsign allowed to be abbreviated) - i.e. N327AB or 7AB or Skylane 7AB
• Position in the pattern - crosswind, downwind, base, final
• Traffic pattern direction - left/right
• Runway number
• Intentions (optional on crosswind and downwind) - full stop, touch&go, low pass
• Airfield name short - i.e. Banning

So, the normal callout is: Banning Traffic, Skylane 7AB, right downwind, rwy 26, Banning.

The logic of these callouts is to inform pilots around about what happening in the traffic pattern, including those who are not yet participating in it and may not be familiar with airfield. And the question is: is it normal to omit traffic direction and runway number in callouts, or is it only a bad habit? What are the real world practices in US?

[Nelson L.]

Hmm, I almost never include my callsign for ease and conciseness. Unless there's more than 1 of each aircraft type, I just say "Rancho Traffic, King Air turning left base runway 10, Rancho". I can certainly see how that might cause some confusion, but if another guy in a king air pops up, I would say "Rancho Traffic, King Air 2253F turning left base runway 10 in front of arriving king air". Then again, I have 0 experience in real-world flying and the extent of my "training" would be the PE workshops, so I'm not really qualified to make these calls. The wonders of desktop simulation

[Ryan B]

Hmm, I almost never include my callsign for ease and conciseness. Unless there's more than 1 of each aircraft type, I just say "Rancho Traffic, King Air turning left base runway 10, Rancho". I can certainly see how that might cause some confusion, but if another guy in a king air pops up, I would say "Rancho Traffic, King Air 2253F turning left base runway 10 in front of arriving king air". Then again, I have 0 experience in real-world flying and the extent of my "training" would be the PE workshops, so I'm not really qualified to make these calls. The wonders of desktop simulation

When I started PPL training I did was the OP did. I haven't flown for real (logging time at least) for too long, so on the sim I do exactly what you do.

There's no point in saying N12345 if there's other traffic in the pattern. I'd just say type unless there's a lot of the same aircraft, then I'd add a color if I have on. IE "XYZ traffic, red and white cirrus left downwind, ry 27, full stop, XYZ"

That way other traffic can look for a red and white cirrus. (I've never seen one before lol).

If there was two of those well then I'd use my tail number with "cirrus."

[Pieces]

One other quick point: There is no crosswind callout specified in the AIM. Just downwind, base, final. I would provide you with a link, but the FAA took down the nice linkable AIM. It is in table 4-1-1 if you want to check it out.

I also agree with those saying that leaving the callsign out is acceptable. The type is always more useful - nobody knows what N123AB is, but everyone knows what an Archer is and what type of pattern it should be flying.

[Ryan B]

Yeah I wish I was taught this practical stuff when I was flying. If I knew what I knew now about this stuff, not to mention ATC due to my job, I would have been an entirely different private pilot

[Nelson L.]

That way other traffic can look for a red and white cirrus. (I've never seen one before lol).

Am I the only one who immediately thought barbershop?

While the description idea works great in real life (from my vast real world experience of 0 hours), I've never used it on PE due to concerns about liveries. Do all liveries show through or only the ones officially supported? Pieces, that's interesting, I wonder if the reason is that there is virtually no conflict with arriving traffic due to runway-in-use(excluding the one guy who insists on landing with a 20kt tailwind)? Either way, I always call the crosswind if only to give arriving traffic the heads-up.

[Pieces]

I'd also like to add that as in many things, situational awareness is key. If you are the only one in the pattern at your airport and another airport on the same CTAF is packed, making every single call is not helpful. You're tying up the frequency with meaningless calls while others actually need to be heard on the radio. Happens a lot in real life, not so much on PE.

[Ryan B]

No, nothing shows up right on my end hehe... I guess that just changes my mind on the issue. I think the planes show better if you're in XP. In FSX tonite a cherokee was a J3 cub.... but you kinda get the idea of where planes are when they make reports. Accurate but short reports are key imo.

[HRutila]

One major consideration is regardless of how wonderful your CTAF calls are, don't be surprised when a random airplane comes out of nowhere and cuts you off on final. The first time it happens will be a real eye opener.

[chevyrules]

One other quick point: There is no crosswind callout specified in the AIM. Just downwind, base, final. I would provide you with a link, but the FAA took down the nice linkable AIM. It is in table 4-1-1 if you want to check it out.

I also agree with those saying that leaving the callsign out is acceptable. The type is always more useful - nobody knows what N123AB is, but everyone knows what an Archer is and what type of pattern it should be flying.

A crosswind call is helpful especially if you have to coordinate with a person on the 45 degree entry into the pattern.

Again while it is technically acceptable( making no calls is also acceptable), I like to include callsign. I definitely say the type in front of the callsign instead of november, " Skyhawk 123AB" because then it becomes easier to coordinate with that person because you can call them out specifically. That would have helped me in the real world a few months back. I was doing a pattern at an uncontrolled field trying to teach my student how to operate in one. The airport where we were at shares a CTAF at another airport about 90 miles away and you pick up both radio calls. We were in the pattern making our calls, " xxx traffic Skyhawk 123AB, turning left downwind xxx traffic", etc. Then someone on the radio said, " Skyhawk, are you a full stop or touch and go?" Didn't state which airport he was at, no callsign, etc. I go back on the radio, " Was that for Skyhawk 123AB?" No response. I assumed what I picked up was the other airport radio call. Anyway we turned out base and final and the student ended up going around due to floating a long time. As we go around, we hear. " WHAT ARE YOU DOING SKYHAWK!" because the person behind us ended up following us too close and going around himself and he ended up blasting right past us on the right.

If that guy was paying attention to the callsign, that would have improved communications and I would have better been able to state our intentions on the landing( we were going to be a full stop since there was more than 3 people in the pattern as per company policy and airport procedure). My mistake was assuming it was for the other airport after that no response from my question and I probably should have stated for safety sake, " xxx traffic Skyhawk 123AB will be a full stop xxx traffic" after that question. Stating just Skyhawk is vague especially if there is more than one Skyhawk on the freq.

I absolutely say include your callsign( say type instead of the N) in your radio call. I always call myself Baron 727CR on the radios. Now you know my type and callsign in case you needed to talk to me specifically for coordination, etc.