last night i was flying the i4. I had planned a routing and noted the tec route in the flight plan form
In following the tec route i would follow airways to a vor etc etc
After takeoff i was given the instruction cleared "direct" to " vor x"
Does that mean i must comply with the "direct" or can i also continue to the vor via flight plan route. Which in my case was in fact
almost the exact same routing.
My gut reaction was that once i accept and acknowledge the " direct" instruction i am obligated to fly that routing and not the specific routing i had specified
If i was to go to the fix via my planned route i would have been told to "go to the fix via flight plan route. "
It may be nuanced by i want to be clear.
Peter
direct to clarification - ifr
direct to clarification - ifr
Peter Kofman
Real World Pilot
1000hrs
VFR VFROTT IFR
Canadian Pilot
Night and Water./FLOATS AMPHIB..
Mooney BRAVO TLS M20M
Real World Pilot
1000hrs
VFR VFROTT IFR
Canadian Pilot
Night and Water./FLOATS AMPHIB..
Mooney BRAVO TLS M20M
Re: direct to clarification - ifr
Peter,
"Direct to" means exactly that. Go directly to the fix that the controller specifies. There's no ambiguity there. It may be given for traffic separation or flow, or just to be nice to shorten your route.
The "direct to" clearance is usually followed by "own navigation"' which means continue on the filed route after the fix you were just cleared to. Sometimes, rather than given a direct to a fix, you are given a heading to join an airway and then "own nav". Realize and be prepared that what you file may completely different than what you will actually fly.
You are right that once you accept the clearance you cannot decide or choose to fly a prior planned route. Any new clearance supercedes the prior clearance or flight planned route.
If for some reason you are unable to fly the specified route, say "unable", and be prepared to give a reason. For instance, if you are /A and you are given a direct to GPS fix by mistake with no way for you to identify it. A rare possibility.
"Direct to" means exactly that. Go directly to the fix that the controller specifies. There's no ambiguity there. It may be given for traffic separation or flow, or just to be nice to shorten your route.
The "direct to" clearance is usually followed by "own navigation"' which means continue on the filed route after the fix you were just cleared to. Sometimes, rather than given a direct to a fix, you are given a heading to join an airway and then "own nav". Realize and be prepared that what you file may completely different than what you will actually fly.
You are right that once you accept the clearance you cannot decide or choose to fly a prior planned route. Any new clearance supercedes the prior clearance or flight planned route.
If for some reason you are unable to fly the specified route, say "unable", and be prepared to give a reason. For instance, if you are /A and you are given a direct to GPS fix by mistake with no way for you to identify it. A rare possibility.
Last edited by rtataryn on Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rod
PPL, Instrument, ASEL, ASES
2013 Cirrus SR22T N877MS
2018 Icon A5 N509BA
1946 Piper J3 Cub N7121H
1942 Stearman N2S N6848
PPL, Instrument, ASEL, ASES
2013 Cirrus SR22T N877MS
2018 Icon A5 N509BA
1946 Piper J3 Cub N7121H
1942 Stearman N2S N6848
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Re: direct to clarification - ifr
This will be easier to answer if we deal with specifics. What was your initial IFR clearance on the ground, and then what was the direct to instruction you received once in the air?If i was to go to the fix via my planned route i would have been told to "go to the fix via flight plan route.
Re: direct to clarification - ifr
I was given I4 = KSNA > Ramona .....(I4)
First portion of the flight planned as
(CSTN32 =V23 OCN V208 JLI)
which translates to V23 ( BALBO KRAUZ DANAH KELPS) OCN +
Thats what i planned.
On departure i was given a head 175
then a further heading and "direct " OCN ( i do not remember them saying " flight planned route " .
So thank you for the clarification , just wanted to be 100% clear what i was to do and the legal interpretation of the clearance
Thanks
Peter
First portion of the flight planned as
(CSTN32 =V23 OCN V208 JLI)
which translates to V23 ( BALBO KRAUZ DANAH KELPS) OCN +
Thats what i planned.
On departure i was given a head 175
then a further heading and "direct " OCN ( i do not remember them saying " flight planned route " .
So thank you for the clarification , just wanted to be 100% clear what i was to do and the legal interpretation of the clearance
Thanks
Peter
Peter Kofman
Real World Pilot
1000hrs
VFR VFROTT IFR
Canadian Pilot
Night and Water./FLOATS AMPHIB..
Mooney BRAVO TLS M20M
Real World Pilot
1000hrs
VFR VFROTT IFR
Canadian Pilot
Night and Water./FLOATS AMPHIB..
Mooney BRAVO TLS M20M
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- Posts: 9939
- Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:38 pm
- Location: Pompton Plains, NJ
- Contact:
Re: direct to clarification - ifr
Perfect. "Direct OCN" has already been covered correctly by Peter so I won't review it.
However, regarding your original statement:
Keep in mind, your IFR clearance on the ground was likely, "fly heading 175, expect radar vectors V23, Oceanside VOR, V208, Julian, direct." So, a heading to join V23 is pretty much what you're expecting to receive from the outset. The only two likely outcomes (short of a total re-route) are:
1) vectors to join V23, as expected, or
2) a shortcut to a fix downstream such as OCN, JLI or direct destination.
There are no nuances here, "direct to" really does mean exactly that.
However, regarding your original statement:
That's not quite right. If the controller intended for you to go to OCN via V23, he/she would've said, "fly heading xxx, intercept V23 then resume own navigation." There wouldn't necessarily be a reference to OCN or your flight planned route.If i was to go to the fix via my planned route i would have been told to "go to the fix via flight plan route.
Keep in mind, your IFR clearance on the ground was likely, "fly heading 175, expect radar vectors V23, Oceanside VOR, V208, Julian, direct." So, a heading to join V23 is pretty much what you're expecting to receive from the outset. The only two likely outcomes (short of a total re-route) are:
1) vectors to join V23, as expected, or
2) a shortcut to a fix downstream such as OCN, JLI or direct destination.
There are no nuances here, "direct to" really does mean exactly that.
Re: direct to clarification - ifr
This is what keep this challenge forever interesting !
Thank you
Pete
Thank you
Pete
Peter Kofman
Real World Pilot
1000hrs
VFR VFROTT IFR
Canadian Pilot
Night and Water./FLOATS AMPHIB..
Mooney BRAVO TLS M20M
Real World Pilot
1000hrs
VFR VFROTT IFR
Canadian Pilot
Night and Water./FLOATS AMPHIB..
Mooney BRAVO TLS M20M