When to request an approach?

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FourMikeRomeo
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:43 pm
Location: Boston-ish, MA

When to request an approach?

Post by FourMikeRomeo »

Hey, had a question after tonight's flights.

I did the I-2 exam and passed, but wasn't happy with how I flew the ILS approach and wanted to do another, so I decided to fly back to KSNA. Getting close to destination, I got a frequency change to 128.1 (I think) and after making the change, was told to expect the visual 20R. I know I could have requested the ILS approach at that point, but I also know I'm supposed to make that request right out of the gate when I contact the approach controller.

My question is how do I know when I'm being handed off to the controller that's going to care about my approach request? I don't want to make the request too early, and I don't want to be given one approach only to have to request another. I was looking at the ILS 20R approach plate and the approach frequency is listed there as 121.3. I expected to get that frequency and then I'd make the request checking in, but I never got that freq.
N314MR
CAT-11 | I-11
ngoiz
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Location: EGGD

Re: When to request an approach?

Post by ngoiz »

Hi 4MR,

It is a bit tricky especially in Socal knowing who to make the approach request with. If you were flying to SBA it would be more obvious that when you are handed off to SBA approach to make your request. In Socal you are basically with them from departure to arrival so its a bit of a judgement call.

Your idea about waiting to get handed off to the listed frequency is not bad but it really depends on the sectorization being used by ATC at that point. The controllers will monitor that frequency but they may not be actively using it (ie make you change to that frequency) if traffic levels do not warrant it. Other times that frequency may be just for the final sector and you will have been assigned an approach way before then.

I'd say its generally a good idea to make your request about 30nm from the airport. If the controller asks you to report having the ATIS that is a good point to make your request. In any case, if you make your request early the controller may say that he will pass the request on or he may ask you to make the request with the next frequency.

Also if the controller assigns you an approach you can always ask for a different one. They'll let you know if they are unable to accommodate for whatever reason.

Hope this helps!
Norberto
EASA and FAA PPL
jx_
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:15 am

Re: When to request an approach?

Post by jx_ »

You want to make the request with the first sector that assigns you an approach at your destination. That is the sector tasked with sequencing for the final approach sector or sequencing the approach directly.


ATC: "N314MR, Socal Approach, expect visual approach Runway 20L, altimeter 29.92"

You: "Expecting visual approach 20L and request ILS approach."

ATC: "N4MR, expect ILS approach."
FourMikeRomeo
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:43 pm
Location: Boston-ish, MA

Re: When to request an approach?

Post by FourMikeRomeo »

That's exactly the exchange I want to avoid. I've heard some approach controllers get a wee bit frustrated with pilots who don't check in with their approach request.

ATC: "N314MR, contact SoCal Approach, 128.1."
Me: "128.1, 4MR."
(change freq)
Me: "SoCal Approach, N314MR, level 6000."
ATC: "N314MR, SoCal Approach, confirm you have information Sierra, expect the visual 20R."
Me: "Approach, we have Sierra, request vectors for the ILS 20R."
ATC: "Roger, expect that." (off-freq) "Argh, then why didn't you request that when you checked in?"

I feel like I'm supposed to know that when I get a certain handoff, that's the final approach controller and I should check in with the weather and my approach request. But I don't know how to know which handoff that is.
N314MR
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Keith Smith
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Re: When to request an approach?

Post by Keith Smith »

The controllers should not be getting frustrated with that. We'll fix it. Until you are assigned an approach or have specific knowledge of how we run the sectors (which it's not reasonable for a pilot to know), it's just not possible to know if the controller you're talking to is handling the selection of approaches for that airport until they say as much.
jx_
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:15 am

Re: When to request an approach?

Post by jx_ »

FourMikeRomeo wrote:That's exactly the exchange I want to avoid. I've heard some approach controllers get a wee bit frustrated with pilots who don't check in with their approach request.

I feel like I'm supposed to know that when I get a certain handoff, that's the final approach controller and I should check in with the weather and my approach request. But I don't know how to know which handoff that is.
Again, wait for ATC to issue one then make your request. That's the easiest way to go. If ATC gets frustrated with that it has nothing to do with you.


ATC will really only get frustrated when they assign an approach, and the pilot doesn't make a request, then after ATC starts vectoring to final, the pilot makes a request that undoes all those vectors.
Shawn Goldsworthy
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: When to request an approach?

Post by Shawn Goldsworthy »

jx_ wrote: ATC will really only get frustrated when they assign an approach, and the pilot doesn't make a request, then after ATC starts vectoring to final, the pilot makes a request that undoes all those vectors.
^^^^^ This!

I have absolutely no issue at all with issuing an approach to expect and then having a pilot ask for something else. In fact, I encourage it! But like Joe says, don't let us vector you all over the place for an approach and then request a different approach/runway as you're about to be vectored onto the final approach course.
Shawn Goldsworthy
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rtataryn
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Re: When to request an approach?

Post by rtataryn »

This is great info Shawn.
Rod
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