Cat 11 Questions

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Skudrunner
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 11:08 am

Cat 11 Questions

Post by Skudrunner »

I failed the Cat 11 because I busted the San Diego Bravo. Here's what I think I learned:
1) I thought that because I was under positive control via communication with SoCal approach and he did not instruct me to remain outside the Bravo, I was good to go. I was wrong.

2) I was instructed to report when I had Mt Soledad in sight. I am not familiar with the San Diego area and Mt Soledad is not indicated on the Los Angeles sectional. I finally found it later on the San Diego TAC chart, so if you're planning the Cat 11, take the San Diego terminal area chart.

3) I don't understand how to fly down the coast, past Torrey Pines, past Mt Soledad to Mission bay toward Lindbergh field without busting the Bravo, there is probably a way but I have not found it. I guess next time I'll have to stay well North of the Bravo until cleared into it.
I'm starting to think that VFR flying by pilotage is no longer realistically viable, with the strict B, C, and D airspace restrictions,without GPS or multiple nav receivers, you just can't be exact enough to thread the needle. I'm flying a experimental with one nav/com and a mode C transponder.
I welcome your thoughts and advice.
rtataryn
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:19 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: Cat 11 Questions

Post by rtataryn »

Skudrunner wrote:I failed the Cat 11 because I busted the San Diego Bravo. Here's what I think I learned:
1) I thought that because I was under positive control via communication with SoCal approach and he did not instruct me to remain outside the Bravo, I was good to go. I was wrong.

2) I was instructed to report when I had Mt Soledad in sight. I am not familiar with the San Diego area and Mt Soledad is not indicated on the Los Angeles sectional. I finally found it later on the San Diego TAC chart, so if you're planning the Cat 11, take the San Diego terminal area chart.

3) I don't understand how to fly down the coast, past Torrey Pines, past Mt Soledad to Mission bay toward Lindbergh field without busting the Bravo, there is probably a way but I have not found it. I guess next time I'll have to stay well North of the Bravo until cleared into it.
I'm starting to think that VFR flying by pilotage is no longer realistically viable, with the strict B, C, and D airspace restrictions,without GPS or multiple nav receivers, you just can't be exact enough to thread the needle. I'm flying a experimental with one nav/com and a mode C transponder.
I welcome your thoughts and advice.
1) Yep, you need a specific clearance to enter Bravo airspace when VFR.

2) Mt Soledad is on the sectional chart. It is a common VFR reporting waypoint with a GPS fix (VPSMS) for those who are equipped, but it's hardly necessary.
Mt Soledad
Mt Soledad
Image-1.jpg (503.13 KiB) Viewed 5283 times
3) Its not that hard really. Just observe the altitude of the Bravo shelves. They are clearly written on the sectional chart and there are pretty clear landmarks and visual ground references to confirm your location if you don't have a moving map. If flying south down the coast, north of Torrey Pines stay below 6800. Along Torrey Pines stay between 3200 and 6800, or stay below 1800. Over La Jolla and Mt Soledad stay below 4800. If still not cleared into the Bravo you can circle all day in that area below 4800.
San Diego Bravo
San Diego Bravo
Image-1-2.jpg (718.53 KiB) Viewed 5283 times
You can also proceed right over KSAN and San Diego Bay through the VFR corridor as long as you stay below 4700 and above 3300. No clearance necessary for any of this. And pretty easy pilotage for this route with the water, airports, and all the San Diego landmarks like Coronado bridge.
San Diego TAC supplement
San Diego TAC supplement
Image-1-3.jpg (413.14 KiB) Viewed 5283 times
But at some point, to land at KSAN you'll need to hear the magic words, "Cleared into the Bravo", and you'll likely be given a heading and/or told to enter a leg of the pattern. Until then, just tour the bay and enjoy the view.
Rod
PPL, Instrument, ASEL, ASES
2013 Cirrus SR22T N877MS
2018 Icon A5 N509BA
1946 Piper J3 Cub N7121H
1942 Stearman N2S N6848
Keith Smith
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Re: Cat 11 Questions

Post by Keith Smith »

Skudrunner, you stated that you weren't aware that a Bravo clearance was required, thinking that receiving flight following was sufficient.

I know you've complete the CAT Ratings so it's somewhat moot, but in case you move onto the IFR ratings, it's important to read all of the material presented in the rating.

The CAT-11 contains the following statements:

From the Airspace Review:
Aircraft operating in Class B airspace must obtain an ATC clearance prior to entering the airspace.
From the "Arriving at a Bravo airport" section:
Approach control will provide a transponder code and once radar identified a clearance to operate in the Class B airspace. Make sure you get a clearance prior to entering the airspace.
Then one paragraph later:
Once again make sure you are given a Class B clearance prior to entering the airspace.
And from the transcript...
SOCAL Approach: Cessna 123AB, SOCAL Approach, San Diego altimeter 29.93, expect runway 27, cleared into the San Diego Bravo airspace."
N123AB: “29.93, runway 27, cleared into the Bravo airspace, Cessna 123AB.”
As you can see, the material works hard to explain the necessity to obtain a Bravo clearance.

Regarding the necessity for GPS, I'd also have to disagree for this case. It isn't explicitly stated in the rating, because the idea is that pilots will determine a suitable route of flight that they can use in the event of not getting a Bravo clearance through the outer shelves, but there is a very simple option, which is to fly at 3500ft along the shoreline, that will keep you between the Bravo shelves, all the way up to MZB VOR. It's very easy to identify Mt Soledad and the associated peninsula that sticks out into the water, along with the MZB VOR. Just make sure you have a Bravo clearance prior to MZB and you're good.

I know the airspace looks a tad hairy at first glance, but the reality is that a little bit of analysis and planning on the ground goes a long way. In this case, there is no tight needle that needs to be threaded using GPS....it can be done entirely visually using simple landmarks, or a VOR, all in conjunction with optimal selection of altitudes.
Skudrunner
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 11:08 am

Re: Cat 11 Questions

Post by Skudrunner »

Thanks for your help and advice. I'll try again. I understand now that although sometimes ATC instructs to stay clear of the class B until cleared into it sometimes they don't. And that just because ATC does not issue the instruction to stay clear, you can not assume you have clearance. I mistakenly focused on the tutorial statement that "Aircraft that are receiving flight following will automatically be provided Class B services once they enter Class B airspace. No specific action is required by the pilot to initiate these services." I presumed (again incorrectly) the the next sentance stating "Once again make sure you are given Class B clearance prior to entering the airspace", applied to those not already in contact with ATC.
Thank you again for taking time to advise me, your instruction is most appreciated.
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