Alphabet Challenge Leg 4 KDLO - KEMT

36 leg Achievement

Alphabet Challenge Leg 4 KDLO - KEMT

Postby Talan2000 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:55 pm

Pilots,

Another fun flight in the (alphabet) soup. :) I've really enjoyed the real world moderately crummy weather that has been stationed over central/southern California these last few days. Nothing like banking while climbing on departure and entering actual IMC to get that awesome vertigo sensation. Delano has a departure ODP so you should get up to at least 3000 before turning south and that put me in the clouds while turning. If I were to do it again I would have cheated the turn 100 ft early and stayed below until level to avoid that...

Lessons Learned:

I was robbed of the chance of creating any more craziness with an actual instrument approach as ATC preempted me with vectors to a visual on 19 at KEMT. That said I must confess I was getting a bit stressed about identifying DARTS. I vowed to go /A and not to use the GPS and DARTS is a real PITA to tune in and intercept. It took me a good 3 minutes at least to figure out that it was SLI R-319/25 defining it from the southeast! SLI is almost off the page and the id box is way south of SLI itself! Anyway.

DARTS.JPG
what a mess!
DARTS.JPG (132.84 KiB) Viewed 2744 times

It's also kind of evil that BERRI is has you switch to LAX R009/17 and doesn't give you a nice "circle/box" 17 on the chart to define the intersection. I know it's no problem for you rated pros, but for us amateurs that's a lot of task saturation tuning, iding,switching navaids just to make the turn to DARTS Oh and make sure you have PDZ tuned in ahead of time too because being at DARTS without is like missing the "board" altogether...

Also after crossing the mountain range to the north, you are inconveniently HIGH at DARTS. Like between 9000 and 5000 ft -- closer to 9000 and you have to drop like a rock to get down all the way to KEMT whether you get VOR A or visual. Slow up early - a lesson I find hard to heed in the Bonanza - will really help you out. I was descending at 1800-2000fpm and got close to violating the minute to live rule especially since...

I found it REALLY hard to identify KEMT visually. So another lesson learned may be to try to download some scenery for it if it exists. What saved me was the Green Taxi/Ramp areas because the runway textures never cleared turned up until very short final...and my heart skipped a beat despite me visually confirming the orientation of the airfield as I saw this...crossing the threshold.

9 OR 19.JPG
9 or 19?
9 OR 19.JPG (180.4 KiB) Viewed 2744 times


Looks like some idiot overpainted the 1 in 19 with some taxi offramp line. Grrr.

That's about it other than the distraction posed by ATC absolutely reaming out some guy up at KSFO. Apparently there's a new "Riot Act" that can be read. I'd never heard an "offender" be ordered to take the PE Training Syllabus as a remedial training and get threatened to account suspension. I wish I had heard the other side of it :) Might make fun listening..That said, I am all for helping chronic offenders "help themselves..."

Todd
Last edited by Talan2000 on Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 3 KDLO - KEMT

Postby Pieces » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:46 pm

I recommend using your DME to help identifying fixes. It helps a lot. You should still get the cross radials set up as a backup when you can, but it is valid to identify DARTS as VNY095R @ 10 DME.
Reece Heinlein, PPL - IR, KMZZ
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Alphabet Challenge
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 3 KDLO - KEMT

Postby Talan2000 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:28 pm

Absolutely Reece.

One wouldn't get anywhere without using the dme. Just using radials ala c-152 days would be a real nightmare even at 80kts.

The trick is staying on the airway from berri to darts without fudging the turn.

Real life I'd probably fudge the turn. I didn't get the opportunity tonight.

The airways are four miles wide I believe and I think it's only 3 miles apart...
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 3 KDLO - KEMT

Postby Keith Smith » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:33 am

Yes, we have now standardized our Riot Act so the tough love can be delivered in a consistent way between all the controllers.
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 3 KDLO - KEMT

Postby zengei » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:41 am

Talan2000 wrote:I found it REALLY hard to identify KEMT visually. So another lesson learned may be to try to download some scenery for it if it exists.

Speaking of which, I made some "lego brick" scenery for X-Plane for KEMT that's been approved on the Scenery Gateway (http://gateway.x-plane.com/scenery/page/KEMT) so it should appear in some future version of X-Plane (probably the version after 10.35), but you can download it now if you like. It's the first scenery I've done, so I just picked a random small class delta airport. I've tried to make it as accurate as possible based on orthoimagery, various online images, and youtube videos and no one's painted over the runway number as far as I know. ;)
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 3 KDLO - KEMT

Postby Keith Smith » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:55 am

zengei wrote:
Talan2000 wrote:I found it REALLY hard to identify KEMT visually. So another lesson learned may be to try to download some scenery for it if it exists.

Speaking of which, I made some "lego brick" scenery for X-Plane for KEMT that's been approved on the Scenery Gateway (http://gateway.x-plane.com/scenery/page/KEMT) so it should appear in some future version of X-Plane (probably the version after 10.35), but you can download it now if you like. It's the first scenery I've done, so I just picked a random small class delta airport. I've tried to make it as accurate as possible based on orthoimagery, various online images, and youtube videos and no one's painted over the runway number as far as I know. ;)


I had forgotten about the gateway scenery project, nice job!
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 3 KDLO - KEMT

Postby zengei » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:15 pm

Keith Smith wrote:I had forgotten about the gateway scenery project, nice job!

Thanks. I believe the first gateway airports will be pushed in the 10.35 update and should really help the sparse X-Plane scenery. The objects available to use are pretty limited, but with some creativity you can get a decent level of verisimilitude.

I'm picking airports to fly to randomly from those in ZLA and I'm making scenery if it doesn't already exist and there are no good third-party options. I've submitted packs for U30 and KBVU, although there's an issue with the X-Plane terrain that causes runway 9R to have a crater in it.
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 3 KDLO - KEMT

Postby Keith Smith » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:30 pm

Talan2000 wrote:Just using radials ala c-152 days would be a real nightmare even at 80kts.


Challenge accepted, except I'll try it at 160kts in a Baron and stream the first attempt on twitch with DME disabled. Deal?

I would argue it's not difficult with a bit of planning. Needles aren't binary...they don't move from full deflection to dead center in the blink of an eye except under vary rare circumstances. The trick is to visualize what's going to happen, have a plan, and stay on top of the process. Course interception and tracking is a mainstay of flying IFR. Practice, practice and then practice some more.
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 4 KDLO - KEMT

Postby Talan2000 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:22 pm

Awesome Keith, I'll get popcorn!

Make sure you give me lots of heads up so I can be sure to watch.

You could even do a whole Series Entitled "Correcting Todd's Mistakes, Or Why I'm a Better Pilot" :)

It could be an entire Challenge -- Fly Better than Todd Did through the reverse alphabet :)

Should be fun!

Todd
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 4 KDLO - KEMT

Postby wmburns » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:52 pm

Talan2000 wrote:It's also kind of evil that BERRI is has you switch to LAX R009/17 and doesn't give you a nice "circle/box" 17 on the chart to define the intersection. I know it's no problem for you rated pros, but for us amateurs that's a lot of task saturation tuning, iding,switching navaids just to make the turn to DARTS Oh and make sure you have PDZ tuned in ahead of time too because being at DARTS without is like missing the "board" altogether...

I try to fly /A much of the time. Just looking at the chart, it seems to me to be too short of a segment to use the VOR to fly the V459 segment. I would be tempted to fly the V201 using the VOR and then DME to identify the BERRI fix. At BERRI, make a left turn heading 139 towards DARTS. I would think that some turn anticipation based upon ground speed to prevent over shoot.

Then use the 2nd VOR/HSI to intercept the V186 segment. With the Victor airway being 4 NM each side of the center line, then it should be real easy to stay within the V459 limits while heading towards the V186 intercept.

It just seems to me that the V459 segment at 2.7 NM is just too short to try and fly using a VOR/HSI. The rapid switching VOR's seems like a sure fire recipe to "get behind the plane". And for what purpose?

Keith Smith wrote:
Talan2000 wrote:Just using radials ala c-152 days would be a real nightmare even at 80kts.


Challenge accepted, except I'll try it at 160kts in a Baron and stream the first attempt on twitch with DME disabled. Deal?

I would argue it's not difficult with a bit of planning. Needles aren't binary...they don't move from full deflection to dead center in the blink of an eye except under vary rare circumstances. The trick is to visualize what's going to happen, have a plan, and stay on top of the process. Course interception and tracking is a mainstay of flying IFR. Practice, practice and then practice some more.


Just wondering. Could the case be made that when flying /A the V459 segment doesn't really matter? For example, if turn anticipation is used to avoid over shoot, I would think that almost everyone would stay within the 4 NM Victor limit just considering the turn only from the V201/V186 point of view? Is it possible that this is what Keith means by how to do it without DME?
Last edited by wmburns on Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:26 am, edited 5 times in total.
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