Alphabet Challenge Leg 6 KFUL - KGCN

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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 6 KFUL - KGCN

Postby Talan2000 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:04 pm

Keith,

Yeah I am annoyed that I didn't think to save the replay. I was sure it was you!

That is a neat approach. I guess adding TACAN was too much for the title, otherwise I don't see why you couldn't call it a TACAN approach in addition to every other thing! ILS, LOC. It has everything! Sidesteps, circling. Now that's an awesome approach. I didn't read all the fine print (ha!) but upon reflection it seems that they had better call out that TACAN better or the civilians won't be able to do the thing! I'll look again to see if it calls out TACAN beyond the id in the FAC!

And yes I will see RTFM in invisible ink now in every post :)

T
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 6 KFUL - KGCN

Postby Peter Grey » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:11 pm

So what's the story on Localizers -- is there any rhyme or reason why some provide DME and some don't? Should we have a bake sale so the FAA can fix I-GCN?


You can tell if they have DME (an earlier question I missed) by the notation LOC/DME in the briefing box that shows the frequency and identifier.

In terms of the why, there is no official answer that I'm aware of. However a general rule of thumb is that if there is another DME navaid on the field (such as a VOR/DME) the localizer will not have DME. If there is no DME navaid on the field the localizer will have DME.

There a couple exceptions generally for larger airports (LAX localizers have DME even though the LAX VOR is on the field).

So using the approach in question KGCN has the GCN VOR/DME on the field so no need to duplicate the DME with a localizer DME.

Of course this is all a guess so I'm not 100% on it.
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 6 KFUL - KGCN

Postby Talan2000 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:18 pm

Holy cow Peter,

That is putting a pretty fine point on it! I use the KSAN LOC 27 approach as my benchmark. I NEVER noticed the LOC/DME notation in that teeny box in the upper left!

Especially confusing as the GCN approach above has LOC/DME in GIANT letters like i pay attention to in the title but NOT in the upper left data box! Very tricky!

I'm collecting for a bake sale so they can fix that...

T
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 6 KFUL - KGCN

Postby Keith Smith » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:26 pm

Todd, if it helps you feel better, when you go through formal IFR training, this stuff is covered. I think it might even be in the workshops, I don't recall, now. The title of the approach doesn't always tell the full story. Every approach needs to be briefed carefully.
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 6 KFUL - KGCN

Postby Peter Grey » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:35 pm

Yup, the DME in the title only means that DME is needed on the final approach segment. It has no bearing on what the DME source is.
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 6 KFUL - KGCN

Postby Keith Smith » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:47 pm

Todd, you don't need TACAN capability to pick up the DME from the TACAN, the DME is separate to the TACAN. Just dial 113.70 and you're good. See the low enroute chart here: http://skyvector.com/?ll=32.64500262896 ... 302&zoom=1
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 6 KFUL - KGCN

Postby Talan2000 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:17 pm

Wow, I have learned a ton on this single flight!

I knew TACAN were an improved VOR/DME but I didn't ever realize that you could tune in a VHF freq for the DME component. Cool.

I suspect that they give the Channel on the chart as their primary customers are military jets with TACAN.

I'll bring this up in my next write up but I had MORE GREMLINS going to Lake Havasu -- no engine outs but an out of control autopilot. Uncommanded turns and rolls enroute. Made an ugly track near PGS! I was watching it trying to figure out what the heck it was doing (90 degree intercepts on the radial etc while in NAV mode). UGLY.

I wonder if I don't have some SASL conflict or who knows what. I'm so leery now after installing a few plugins -- smartcopilot, Xcamera, etc...maybe one is causing a conflict...

T
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 6 KFUL - KGCN

Postby flyingdrill » Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:09 am

Finding 2+ hours to do these longer flights can prove to be tricky sometimes. I had 2 goes earlier in the day, only to be thrown by domestic interruptions :-) However, I had already made a mess of what is an easy departure by making a simple error which I have never made in many years of RW flying - I tuned the wrong VOR - really careless in every way, because I neither checked the chart (nor my memory!), nor did I bother to identify the VOR on the radio. I was looking in disbelief at conflicting evidence, and convincing myself that the software was at fault, not me ;) This sort of thing is easy to do in a sim., where there are no nasty consequences, other than embarrassment!
Once I'd seen the error of my ways, I flew the departure procedure perfectly in practice, just to make sure I had not completely lost the plot! While doing it, however, I made the decision to fly the real, full journey in a different aircraft from the one I had originally chosen, as I have found that I can hand fly my later choice (Carenado's Stationair) much better than I can their Malibu in IMC. I just need to adjust my joystick settings to suit the Piper when I fly it, but never seem to bother - so, I'm my own worst enemy!

In the event, I was given an initial altitude in the clearance, and this was changed immediately! Then, while I was nicely flying the departure, I was quickly given a direct to PDZ, so I never had to bother with SLI :) Interesting for me, was that Seattle Avionics FlyQ EFB gave me (consistently) a route that went from KFUL direct to CALBE (the Stationair is a /G, of course), and the V210 to APLES, which is shorter by a bit. They say that they do take SIDs and STARs into account, as well as the weather (which was not great at Fullerton), but there was no attempt to use the ANHM5.SLI procedure. I wonder whether PE would have let me use that route, but I didn't file it that way.

The rest of the trip was uneventful, mostly at 15000', with me breathing oxygen, and the cabin heater on :D As I got nearer to the destination, the tail wind component really beefed up, and I was getting190+ KTS GS and, at one stage, I saw 205! The sun was setting, and it looked really beautiful (X-Plane and SkyMaxx). It really started to get dark as I approached KGCN, the runway lighting was on, and I made my visual approach in ever decreasing light. As I turned final, it was virtually night, and I landed and taxied in the dark.

Now for three shorter flights!
Last edited by flyingdrill on Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 6 KFUL - KGCN

Postby bbuckley » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:23 pm

So, my first short field takeoff in the Phenom 100 didn't go as well as I would have hoped... :( I clipped the fence at the end of the runway just as I was sucking up the gear. After polishing out the scratches and cleaning the seat, I went back and tried again (offline) and this time I held the brakes until reaching full N1 and used a bit more than TO/GA thrust, and full flaps. This time I cleared but not by much... I really want to fly this long leg in a fast airplane so I'll probably lighten the load, kiss the wife goodbye and try again tomorrow.

I should have suspected something when Peter asked what type aircraft I was even though he had the flight plan. He was warning me... :lol:
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Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 6 KFUL - KGCN

Postby zerofay32 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:49 am

Completed this leg a few days ago. Mostly uneventful. Flew it IFR. Didn't get the route I filed for (never even considered needing to stay clear of LAX arrivals) so I got some practice copying a full route clearance. This was the day that Northern Arizona was getting some nasty thunderstorms, and had to stay a little further south than my route to miss the worst of it. Probably didn't go as far as I should have because I clipped a cell of pretty heavy precip. Timed my approach into GCN so that I made it to the airport in between two rain storms. All and all a very nice flight, on to the next one! :D
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