Alphabet Challenge Leg 30 K3L2 - K49X

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Talan2000
Posts: 207
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:59 pm
Location: McKinney, Texas, USA, Earth

Alphabet Challenge Leg 30 K3L2 - K49X

Post by Talan2000 »

Pilots,

Departing the ranch should be no problem unless a Minivan darts out in front of you on the runway/driveway!
http://peaware.pilotedge.net/flight.cfm?id=88592

Lessons Learned:
Beware MTN Turbulence: Before I flew in mountainous terrain for real, I would be sure to sit down with a CFI or a local or attend an FAA Safety Seminar on mountain flying. I experienced moderate/severe turbulence on this flight crossing the mountains in the vicinity GFS. I think that we fear the "lack of oxygen" at 10000* really 12500 as I recall but there is some disparate info on O2 requirements -- anyway - we fear the lack of o2 and that hassle when the ground carries a much heavier smack... In retrospect I would have carried more clearance passing over these mountains than the 2000 ft or so I had.

Remember that VFR cruising altitudes apply only 3000AGL - so you can go up to 12000 over a 9500 MSL mountain and be totally legal. Another question I've had -- what exactly is "Crusing" as in how long are you at that altitude to constitute it being a "cruise altitude" and also what is the lateral distance associated with terrain avoidance mins (the 3000 AGL I mentioned). I've never seen it defined. In other words, if there is a mountain peak within XXX number of feet from me, does that give me permission to cruise at a nonstandard altitude? If so what's the lateral distance to grant that exemption?
Peter Grey
Posts: 5716
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:21 pm

Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 30 K3L2 - K49X

Post by Peter Grey »

Remember that VFR cruising altitudes apply only 3000AGL - so you can go up to 12000 over a 9500 MSL mountain and be totally legal. Another question I've had -- what exactly is "Crusing" as in how long are you at that altitude to constitute it being a "cruise altitude" and also what is the lateral distance associated with terrain avoidance mins (the 3000 AGL I mentioned). I've never seen it defined. In other words, if there is a mountain peak within XXX number of feet from me, does that give me permission to cruise at a nonstandard altitude? If so what's the lateral distance to grant that exemption?
Regarding "cruising" the exact reg wording is "level cruising flight". So if you are level for an extended period of time you have to comply. It's worth noting the FAA in the same reg states "Except while holding in a holding pattern of 2 minutes or less". Which implies (but does not directly mean) that over 2 minutes would qualify.

Regarding the lateral requirement none, it's looking at the ground directly under you.
Beware MTN Turbulence: Before I flew in mountainous terrain for real, I would be sure to sit down with a CFI or a local or attend an FAA Safety Seminar on mountain flying. I experienced moderate/severe turbulence on this flight crossing the mountains in the vicinity GFS. I think that we fear the "lack of oxygen" at 10000* really 12500 as I recall but there is some disparate info on O2 requirements -- anyway - we fear the lack of o2 and that hassle when the ground carries a much heavier smack... In retrospect I would have carried more clearance passing over these mountains than the 2000 ft or so I had.
Worst turbulence I've ever had was flying over mountains during a cold front passage. More to the point I 100% agree with the see a CFI before mountain flying. I've done some flying around mountains and there are lots of traps.
Peter Grey
PilotEdge Director of Quality Assurance and Operations
peter@pilotedge.net
Talan2000
Posts: 207
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:59 pm
Location: McKinney, Texas, USA, Earth

Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 30 K3L2 - K49X

Post by Talan2000 »

Peter, Thanks, back to the Lateral definition. I'm much more interested in look AHEAD of me than directly beneath me...I think there's a bit of unclarity in these mountain areas / cruising. -- as you note the time limit indirectly mentioned - talks about holding, (what?) If you are in a canyon with mountains 1000 yards off either wing, that's got to be more relevant than the valley floor 3000 ft below you.

The only scenario "for scolding" I envision is with Flight Following - telling them you are climbing up to 12000 to clear a mountain instead of 13500 say. And ATC saying that's not a valid "cruising altitude". This is mainly C-172 world not KingAir land...I can see where someone would stay at 11500, when going to 12000 for 2... 3... 5.. minutes would give them better terrrain clearance, for fear of not being at an official cruise altitude.

Anyway, the main point is to talk to a pro and have a plan...
T
Peter Grey
Posts: 5716
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:21 pm

Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 30 K3L2 - K49X

Post by Peter Grey »

Honestly in the real world at the altitudes you are talking about ATC won't have radar coverage. We don't currently simulate that aspect here.

Heck, I've had ATC lose radar on me at 17,000' (I was IFR).

In your "climbing to avoid a mountain" scenario ATC won't think twice about what you are doing. If they ask tell them why and you'll be set.

Are you 100% legal per the letter of the law, maybe. Is anyone going to care, no.
Peter Grey
PilotEdge Director of Quality Assurance and Operations
peter@pilotedge.net
flyingdrill
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:15 am

Re: Alphabet Challenge Leg 30 K3L2 - K49X

Post by flyingdrill »

A nice VFR flight in a Grumman Tiger. I've flown these RW, but this model seemed overly twitchy, but the winds in the desert are difficult to work out, owing to the paucity of weather reporting stations. So, it was quite possibly the winds. I also thought I may as well use the A/P to help smooth it out, and I spent the first third of the flight fighting it. This is because I had not RTFM (of course), and had forgotten that the old A/P modelled had some of the controls over the turn co-ordinator. Once I'd looked a bit closer, and it dawned on me why I was not getting it to behave, I set it properly and sat back to enjoy the ride. One instance of traffic near the start of the flight, and the controllers (flight following) had nothing else for me. These desert areas are quiet..... I flew it at 7500', and it was not necessary to fly any higher.

The next flight is a long one. I think I'd better sort out some quicker machinery!
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