Child spoiling things for other users

[stealthbob]

The thing that comes to mind to me and that has not been mentioned is the ramifications towards the Commercial side of the business. I could only imagine the damage that could potentially cause if it were to happen during a commercial training flight or worse yet during a demonstration...

It would seem PE is is kinda stuck in this regard...to prevent this they would have to make it less open for trial users and risk loosing pilots bothering to even test out the service. It is a rare event and in every case staff have handled it with extreme patience and professionalism. It takes special traits to be able to temper ones emotions when this happens, what events like this illustrate to me is that Keith certainly has been able to gather some quality people to be on the front line of his awesome network.

[wmburns]

WOW. That was seriously PAINFUL to listen to. As a paying member of PE, I switched from Vatsim to PE to have access to the "high quality" PE service. So If I was flying at this time, likely would not have been happy either.

Perhaps the controller on duty was too patient with this pilot trying to stay "in character". Some pain might have been avoided by playing the "do the PE training" card sooner since clearly this pilot wasn't familiar with the procedures.

At some level the young pilot was trying at first. The shame is that if a few things were done differently the outcome could have been much different. Some practice time on Vatsim and some homework.......

A couple of take away's from my point of view.

I'm sure the pilot didn't realize just how much they were calling attention to themselves by:

• Multiple radio checks. Yes your radio is still working after the first mic check.
• Not thinking what to say before keying the mic (can happen to any of us right?).
• Not writing ANYTHING down
• No patience. Sometimes the controller is actually busy helping others Don't expect an immediate reply to every radio call.
• Not having charts available or performing even a basic review of the airport diagram.
• Being unfamiliar with even the basic clearance and taxi procedures
• Making a 2nd flight from a class Bravo in large airliner.

There are lessons to learned for everyone. Consider in this same bunch of tapes there were:

• An native English speaking "newbie" obviously having problems with situational awareness causing problems entering a traffic pattern (been guilty of this myself).
• An older gentleman with a stuck mic lasting several minutes. We get to hear the full interaction with his instructor.
• A non English speaking "newbie" obviously struggling with read backs.
• two cases of a pilot making a CTAF call NOT on the correct CTAF frequency (been there. Done that more than once myself )
• Cases of a well experienced pilot broadcasting on the wrong frequency (can happen to any of us right?).
• While listening to the tapes I believe there were two other cases of underage pilots on the network. However these pilots were not disruptive.

As PE grows we have to be prepared for more non English speaking "newbies" to join the network. These pilots have the possibility of being "disruptive" to the network (for different reasons). But clearly we have to find ways allow these pilots to advance.

To any other under age pilots out there: If you are truly interested in aviation and want to learn then it's important to not make waves while on the network.

• You may think that we can't tell your age over the mic but we can.
• Practice on Vatsim before even attempting PE.
• Come prepared. Be able to control your sim. Have a flight plan. Have charts ready for review. Have a pen and paper ready.
• Think what to say before keying the mic. This is something that everyone of us is learning the importance of.
• Spend some serious time just monitoring the network. Listen to what the other pilots are saying and how they are saying it.
• Be considerate of others. Flying at very busy times may not be the best idea.

Final take away before we get all "serious" with ourselves. There's a large number of us that really are just big kids at heart living a dream with the aid of simulation <raises hand>. Commercial ops not with standing.

<jumps off soap box>

[stealthbob]

I was going to mention the part about the extended tolerance to this pilot, it was admirable but I would tend to agree with you wmburns...maybe it should have been dealt with a little sooner. He obviously did not meet the age requirement, that combined with utter lack of procedural knowledge would make it a valid move to remove him from the network.

....speaking from the FO side of things mind you.

[Vincent Meier]

My two cents:
I would have killed to be a kid with that much passion for aviation at that age.
Just listening to him and seeing that he tried so hard to be a PIC - my heart went out to him.
I can almost see him years later guiding a heavy down an ILS approach in real life.
To have to ability to even say what he said, I give him full points. At that age I was still watching cartoons and playing with my GI Joe.

Does he belong here? - Not yet, but he will be a rock star in a few years.

You are all correct in your assessments - But man I wish I could be a kid again.

[stevekirks]

WOW. That was seriously PAINFUL to listen to. As a paying member of PE, I switched from Vatsim to PE to have access to the "high quality" PE service. So If I was flying at this time, likely would not have been happy either.

I actually heard this much differently. They were fine on the Oceana flight, but around 1:50:00 they switched to another flight. That's when the wheels fell off. Honestly, he was struggling with the difference between the Oceana environment and the LAX Bravo. Remember that the "tapes" have the natural gaps in silence removed so it sounds more hectic than it might have been.

So:

The first "kid" flight might have sounded bad because of the other radio traffic (stuck mic, non-native English speaker) but their radio skills sounded pretty coherent. I've heard other more mature sim-pilots butcher it worse. The second flight out of the Bravo started fine, a little coaching for the readback but seemed fine. In fact, very polite and mostly composed, consider their age and inexperience. They even made sure to report in with the weather (and a letter) each time.

Overall, I think the kid did pretty good...

[RyanK]

My two cents:
I would have killed to be a kid with that much passion for aviation at that age.
Just listening to him and seeing that he tried so hard to be a PIC - my heart went out to him.
I can almost see him years later guiding a heavy down an ILS approach in real life.
To have to ability to even said what he said, I give him full points. At that age I was still watching cartoons and playing with my GI Joe.

Does he belong here? - Not yet, but he will be a rock star in a few years.

You are all correct in your assessment - But man I wish I could be a kid again.

Agree with this. I only listened to the first part, so I don't know if it got a lot worse. He was in way over his head, and certainly doesn't belong on a professional ATC network alongside commercial users yet, but he seemed to be trying to do things right. I can imagine myself at that age thinking I knew more than I did.

[flyingdrill]

It got much worse.........

[davidspreckeriii]

I would like to caution people about instantly judging based on audio. Some of us *looks in mirror* are almost 30 but have a naturally higher voice. not all of us are endowed with a manly voice. I know this situation was not in question, but it is something to remember.

As for that recording, props to the controllers for their patience.

[501Aviator]

Listening too it now. Poor Joe. I realize we all have to start somewhere. But I'd give it a little bit longer of playing FSX multiplayer or Vatsim before he tries again.