First Flight Video

[Adamant_UK]

Hi All,

I'm an aspiring PPL and studying RT as much as possible before getting hours in the air!

I was watching the "first flight" video at http://www.pilotedge.net/pages/first-flight and at 9:00 he calls San Luis Tower who say back to him "Cessna 757VB, San Luis Tower. Enter left base runway 29. Report final". Pilot then replies "Enter left base and report on final. 7VB"

According to an instructor, you shouldn't ever abbreviate a callsign in any readback until a controller has already done so but the controller here used the full callsign.

Is this something that's just "done" in real-life and even if the controller doesn't abbreviate then you do anyway?

Thanks,
Adam

[wmburns]

According to an instructor, you shouldn't ever abbreviate a callsign in any readback until a controller has already done so but the controller here used the full callsign.

^^^This is true after communications are established. Note this is per ATC controller. So after switching frequencies one must always check in using the full call sign. Good catch.

In general when taking real world lessons it's a good idea to do what your CFII says.

http://atccommunication.com/what-is-an- ... -call-sign

http://www.cfinotebook.net/notebook/rul ... /callsigns

http://groundschool.prepware.com/cgi-bi ... ion_id=110

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=852&p=5146&hilit=ab ... sign#p5146

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=420&p=2724&hilit=ab ... sign#p2724

[HRutila]

According to an instructor, you shouldn't ever abbreviate a callsign in any readback until a controller has already done so but the controller here used the full callsign.

Yes, this is correct per the AIM. It is very uncommon in real life for pilots to remember the rule.

[4535jacks]

Adamant,

Yes in the UK the full registration (i.e G-CGMH) is used for first contact is used until the controller refers to you using an abbreviation (i.e G-MH). When you are doing your PPL you will mainly be asking ATC for a basic service and generally will abbreviate after you have passed your details and ATC have given you a QNH.

In the UK we follow the procedures laid down in CAP 413 but I would highly recommend this handy guide from the CAA:

http://www.enstoneflyingclub.co.uk/file ... locked.pdf

As mentioned above though, listen to your flight instructor!

Jacks

[Keith Smith]

Keep in mind, though, US controllers cannot shorten international callsigns.

And yes, you are correct, the pilot technically shouldn't shorten until the controller does it first.

[4535jacks]

Ah, I was wondering why my callsign was never shortened last night!

[Adamant_UK]

Thanks for the replies all - I didn't expect this much response!

It seems that the real life calls are different to those "in the book" and that so long as your intentions are clear to ATC it really doesn't matter (although I plan to always stick to the book!).

Watching a VA787 missed approach into LAX on YouTube here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrYvhhsBmm4 and the pilot executed a missed approach due to windshear but called a "going around" (0:21). As I understand it, going around is for VFR and he was IFR so should have been a missed approach.

At the same time, ATC advised to turn left heading 210 (0:55) but omitting degrees on the end (even though the heading ended in 0), the readback by the pilot had the word degrees on though.

So, I'll just do everything by the book but be prepared for others not to do this!

[Justin Lerner]

Actually, anybody can "go around" and a go around can be commanded by ATC or the PIC for any number of reasons.

From the FAA's Pilot/Controller Glossary:

GO AROUND− Instructions for a pilot to abandon
his/her approach to landing. Additional instructions
may follow. Unless otherwise advised by ATC, a
VFR aircraft or an aircraft conducting visual
approach should overfly the runway while climbing
to traffic pattern altitude and enter the traffic pattern
via the crosswind leg. A pilot on an IFR flight plan
making an instrument approach should execute the
published missed approach procedure or proceed as
instructed by ATC; e.g., “Go around” (additional
instructions if required).

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publica ... ia/pcg.pdf

[Keith Smith]

An instruction from ATC to fly a heading will not end with the word 'degrees'. That word is only used for a relative heading change.

eg, "fly heading Two One Zero"

"turn left twenty degrees."

It was incorrect for the pilot to read back "turn left 2 1 0 degrees," as that actually implies a turn to the opposite heading, plus another 30 degrees. Pilots are often a little bit relaxed on their readbacks.

Regarding going around vs going missed. It's fine for a pilot to report going around whether they're VFR or IFR. ATC will then supply the appropriate instructions, such as "fly heading 210, climb and maintain 5000" (which might bear zero resemblance to the published missed), or they might say, "fly the published missed, contact Socal approach [insert frequency]."

[Tim Krajcar]

It was incorrect for the pilot to read back "turn left 2 1 0 degrees," as that actually implies a turn to the opposite heading, plus another 30 degrees.

This could also be heard as 'Turn left to ten degrees', which is why ATC uses 'fly heading X' and, in my opinion, pilots should read it back as they heard it.