Feedback on visual approaches with IFR flight

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ddrake
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 11:00 am

Feedback on visual approaches with IFR flight

Post by ddrake »

I was flying the I5 from KBUR to KLAS on the Creeso5 arrival and was vectored to the right of KLAS on about a heading basically toward the downwind of runway 8R with the 19R downwind to my left.Was given a clearance for the runway 19R approach. I am accustomed to the controller saying join the downwind (a left turn would have placed me 45 degrees toward the 19R downwind). Instead the controller cleared me for the 19R visual for me to not turn on base until past the stratosphere (will come back to that).

Was I supposed to navigate on my on onto the 19R downwind once cleared for the visual 19R approach?
I am accustomed to more detail like cross midfield or a traffic pattern entry. Would like to understand how to handle cleared for visual approaches that don’t have the pattern entry called out by ATC.

Second issue is I disconnected once I could not find the LV stratosphere and flew all over looking for it. Maybe it’s not in MSFS2020? Or maybe I am not looking in the right place? What am I missing?

Thanks for advice and the learning.
bk6662
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:54 pm

Re: Feedback on visual approaches with IFR flight

Post by bk6662 »

Hey ddrake!

I'm brand new, still learning, so take my response with a grain of salt (a really small grain). I've not flown in the LV area. I see the Strat is only a few miles north of the field (not sure why it wasn't showing in your sim - that would be really surprising if not modeled in MSFS 2020). My guess is the controller was using that as a landmark to gauge when to begin the right turn, to put you in the right traffic pattern / downwind for 19R? I'm still not clear how IFR approaches get transitioned into a visual arrival, so there may be much more to it.

Will be interested to see / hear what the pros have to say about your inquiry!

-bk
ddrake
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 11:00 am

Re: Feedback on visual approaches with IFR flight

Post by ddrake »

So I found the strat in MSFS2020 even with the settings on ultra it shows up as a round tall grain silo looking brick building not anywhere close to what the strat looks like. With photogrammatry tuned on its correct. I downloaded the add on scenes for MSFS so now I have it and looked up online and found that the strat is a common but unpublished visual approach to turn base on 19L and 19R.

So now my other question remains. When given the cleared 19R approach from my heading I was on a 110 degree parallel to runway 8R. Was I supposed to turn left onto the downwind for 19R which would have put me into a right pattern to turn right base onto 19R (which is listed as right traffic) or was I supposed to overfly the airport and turn left base at the strat onto 19R?

Still trying to understand how to fly visual approaches when cleared on IFR flight by ATC and not yet handed off to tower.
Kevin_atc
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:01 pm

Re: Feedback on visual approaches with IFR flight

Post by Kevin_atc »

In the absence of any instructions, a visual approach clearance allows you to do everything except climb in order to get to the runway. I’m almost certain the controller meant for you to make left traffic, but if you were still well west of the airport at the time of your clearance, I could see how that would be ambiguous. Did you review the audio, or would you post it here for us to hear?
Kevin
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ddrake
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 11:00 am

Re: Feedback on visual approaches with IFR flight

Post by ddrake »

Thanks will try to find the audio so to make left traffic in this scenario I should have flown over the field (over runway 8L/R) on a left downwind 19R and turn Left base when I am abeam the strat?
The ATC comment was to turn base when cleared the strat…not sure if that means to go past it?
Kevin_atc
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:01 pm

Re: Feedback on visual approaches with IFR flight

Post by Kevin_atc »

Correct, overfly the numbers of 26L/R and then base abeam the stratosphere. You can begin the turn abeam. If they didn’t want you to pass it, they would say something like “keep your base turn inside the stratosphere.”
Kevin
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ddrake
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Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 11:00 am

Re: Feedback on visual approaches with IFR flight

Post by ddrake »

Thank you Kevin, very helpful!

If I can bother you for one more though. Runway 19R is listed as right traffic and I get that is because of runway 19L. But in looking up real world examples almost all of them I found were left traffic into 19R. That makes sense as well as a right pattern takeoff and downwind from 19R would take you right over the Vegas skyscrapers. And the obstacle obstruction procedure from 19R is a left turn. Just curious how you know for certain when cleared to visual which procedure you would use if the published procedure in this example is a right pattern should I ask the controller for clarity on the pattern turns?
Kevin_atc
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:01 pm

Re: Feedback on visual approaches with IFR flight

Post by Kevin_atc »

ddrake wrote:Thank you Kevin, very helpful!

If I can bother you for one more though. Runway 19R is listed as right traffic and I get that is because of runway 19L. But in looking up real world examples almost all of them I found were left traffic into 19R. That makes sense as well as a right pattern takeoff and downwind from 19R would take you right over the Vegas skyscrapers. And the obstacle obstruction procedure from 19R is a left turn. Just curious how you know for certain when cleared to visual which procedure you would use if the published procedure in this example is a right pattern should I ask the controller for clarity on the pattern turns?
Published traffic pattern direction is really irrelevant at a towered airport. Don’t count on using it, just do what the controller says to do, or in the event they don’t tell you anything just do what makes sense.
Kevin
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