What will be the coverage area for this? Do you plan on having service for Dallas, TX?
Also, what are the benefits to this service from what vatsim already offers?
Thanks,
Jeremy
Coverage Area
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Keith Smith
- Posts: 9939
- Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:38 pm
- Location: Pompton Plains, NJ
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Re: Coverage Area
From there "WHERE" page (http://pilotedge.net/where):jeremyw wrote:What will be the coverage area for this? Do you plan on having service for Dallas, TX?
PilotEdge provides ATC service in a limited geographic area. This is entirely by design. We believe that the system provides its greatest value where traffic density is relatively high. This results in having other planes to see out the window and to hear on the radio. If we set out to provide ATC across the entire country, the result would be that vast expanses of the airspace would have too few aircraft flying in any given location to make it useful for training or currency.
To that end, PilotEdge will provide ATC coverage in California and parts of Nevada, specifically, the entire Oakland and Los Angeles ARTCC’s. Expansion will only occur if we can maintain reasonable traffic density in all areas of coverage, old and new.
We absolutely understand the urge to fly and train 'locally', but the reality is that instrument procedures are the same all over the country. Additionally, there is actually some value to be had in practicing in less familiar areas. If your real-world currency regimen consists of shooting the same 6 approaches that you can recall entirely from memory, then you may well benefit from trying new approaches in a new area.
See the COMPARE page for more detail on the differences, but briefly...once we launch:Also, what are the benefits to this service from what vatsim already offers?
- guaranteed ATC presence and quality, hour after hour, day after day
- 100% voice environment, including range-limited voice CTAF (non-towered ops on the actual frequencies)
- consistent use of real-world frequencies regardless of staffing configuration (you call ground for taxi on the ground frequency, without knowing/caring how we're staffed)
- organizations are allowed to use this on a commercial basis (flight schools, sim centers, etc)
- increased traffic density through a smaller geographic coverage area and the use of recorded aircraft flying in Class E/G airspace
If those benefits are not relevant to the kind of flying that you do, or you have a requirement to fly outside of the coverage area, then VATSIM would be a reasonable choice.
Re: Coverage Area
For me the biggest differences are:
1) There are 975 airports in California, it has some of the most densly packed air space in the country. You practically have to fly IRF to keep from stumbling into controlled airspace. This is some challenging and complex airwork.
2) California has more IFR weather than Texas or Arizona. You get to fly in some really challenging weather in the PRK. Be sure to turn on real-weather to thoroughally enjoy it.
3) Vatsim typically covers one airport and maybe Departure or center. In most cases you stay on the same frequency for everything--not realistic. On PE you actually have to roll through all of the frequencies from Clearance to ground to tower to departure...etc All while you are flying in challenging weather and negotiating a tough instrument departure.
4) No more kids! On Vatsim you have every half-wit with a PC bungling about. On PE you have some very serious hombres. We have lots of real world pilots, PPLs, guys working on their commercial tickets, aviation college guys, real air traffic controllers (one has 27+ years as a real world ATC) and a few guys who acually own their own airplanes.
5) Feedback: The PE controllers will actually give positive feedback on procedural errors you may have committed, allowing you to grow as a pilot. On Vatsim you usually get a snide remark or ignored by the controller (or get a demerit in your secret file.)
If you want to really learn to fly, or stay current in a real world environment then PE is the place.
1) There are 975 airports in California, it has some of the most densly packed air space in the country. You practically have to fly IRF to keep from stumbling into controlled airspace. This is some challenging and complex airwork.
2) California has more IFR weather than Texas or Arizona. You get to fly in some really challenging weather in the PRK. Be sure to turn on real-weather to thoroughally enjoy it.
3) Vatsim typically covers one airport and maybe Departure or center. In most cases you stay on the same frequency for everything--not realistic. On PE you actually have to roll through all of the frequencies from Clearance to ground to tower to departure...etc All while you are flying in challenging weather and negotiating a tough instrument departure.
4) No more kids! On Vatsim you have every half-wit with a PC bungling about. On PE you have some very serious hombres. We have lots of real world pilots, PPLs, guys working on their commercial tickets, aviation college guys, real air traffic controllers (one has 27+ years as a real world ATC) and a few guys who acually own their own airplanes.
5) Feedback: The PE controllers will actually give positive feedback on procedural errors you may have committed, allowing you to grow as a pilot. On Vatsim you usually get a snide remark or ignored by the controller (or get a demerit in your secret file.)
If you want to really learn to fly, or stay current in a real world environment then PE is the place.
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Keith Smith
- Posts: 9939
- Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:38 pm
- Location: Pompton Plains, NJ
- Contact:
Re: Coverage Area
I just received this excellent question via email regarding the coverage area and thought I would share the answer I wrote with the forum as I think it might be valuable to a wider audience.
The question:
If we find that we're getting strong traction from the sim enthusiast market and there is demand for pilots to stretch their legs over a wider area, then we'll look into it.
It costs [a bunch of money] to staff each facility. That's [many, many] additional subscriptions just to break even, and doesn't include the expense of actually developing the procedures for each facility.
"High quality ATC" is something that takes a long time to develop for each facility, so the decision to open a new piece of sky is not something we can make lightly.
I have plenty of time flying online in a wide variety of planes. My observation is that there's actually close to 0 work to be done during the enroute phase of flight. All the action is really in the departure, climb, descent, approach and landing phase. I would argue that once you go beyond a 1hr end to end flight, there is a diminishing return on the time invested in the flight (in terms of education/training). For that reason, I feel as though having ZOA/ZLA with 200+ public use airports and 600x400nm of airspace should be a reasonable environment for just about any pilot. A flight from KRDD to, say KSAN or KNYL will take at least 90 mins in a 737.
Now, I agree that the time might come where you start running out of class Bravo airport city pairs, however, if you broaden the list to include Class C and Class D fields, you could come up with a massive list of potential flights to do on the network.
Step down into a 280kt turboprop, and the airspace becomes much 'bigger', too. Just a thought!
I absolutely understand your request, and once we launch, we'll see how things go. I'm open to it, but it's a very tough decision to make.
What is most likely to happen is that if we do expand, it'll be over on the east coast, simply because that is the second largest concentration of GA pilots in the country, and this is primarily aimed at real world student pilots, instrument students and rated pilots who are looking to raise their game and stay sharp.
I hope this helps!
The question:
The answer:Do you all have future plans for expansion to maybe ZSE or ZAN? I'd love to fly 737 or heavies with a known staffed, professional ATC. I think it'd be well worth the monthly fee- or even if you could staff some of the international airports in the surrounding regions.. I'm just thinking ZLA/ZOA together might be a little small for fast movers
If we find that we're getting strong traction from the sim enthusiast market and there is demand for pilots to stretch their legs over a wider area, then we'll look into it.
It costs [a bunch of money] to staff each facility. That's [many, many] additional subscriptions just to break even, and doesn't include the expense of actually developing the procedures for each facility.
"High quality ATC" is something that takes a long time to develop for each facility, so the decision to open a new piece of sky is not something we can make lightly.
I have plenty of time flying online in a wide variety of planes. My observation is that there's actually close to 0 work to be done during the enroute phase of flight. All the action is really in the departure, climb, descent, approach and landing phase. I would argue that once you go beyond a 1hr end to end flight, there is a diminishing return on the time invested in the flight (in terms of education/training). For that reason, I feel as though having ZOA/ZLA with 200+ public use airports and 600x400nm of airspace should be a reasonable environment for just about any pilot. A flight from KRDD to, say KSAN or KNYL will take at least 90 mins in a 737.
Now, I agree that the time might come where you start running out of class Bravo airport city pairs, however, if you broaden the list to include Class C and Class D fields, you could come up with a massive list of potential flights to do on the network.
Step down into a 280kt turboprop, and the airspace becomes much 'bigger', too. Just a thought!
I absolutely understand your request, and once we launch, we'll see how things go. I'm open to it, but it's a very tough decision to make.
What is most likely to happen is that if we do expand, it'll be over on the east coast, simply because that is the second largest concentration of GA pilots in the country, and this is primarily aimed at real world student pilots, instrument students and rated pilots who are looking to raise their game and stay sharp.
I hope this helps!