Procedure Question

[Zimmerbz]

Hello... I just had a few more questions that I wanted to clarify to make sure I am following the correct procedures when flying an airline route from an airport without ATC. For this example I'll use KLAS-KSFO.

10 years ago I would use Vatsim and if an airport wasn't controlled, I would go to the next "higher" control for clearance, taxi, t/o, departure, etc. So if I am flying from KLAS-KSFO and KLAS is not controlled, I would get all of my clearance, t/o, departure from LA center and just stay with them until I hit Oakland center. Is that the same with Pilotedge? Or am I on my own until I would be at the correct position to contact LA center? If that is the case, when would I need to contact center and who is responsible for clearance.

Or, is ATC monitoring all of those frequencies at LAS but not controlling them and I would just use the actual frequencies? Thanks, I just want to make sure I am following everything correctly!

[Marcus Becker]

KLAS and KSFO have ATC. For airports that are covered by Pilotedge (information is all over the website about what is and isn't covered), use the real world frequencies and you will get a controller. You might hear the same voices from one frequency to the next but be assured that each frequency belongs to the published position and should be identified as such.

[Zimmerbz]

Ok.. I think I might have misunderstood then. I thought the only ATC was at the airports below plus the rotating airports as well as centers in the west. KLAS wasn't listed as a primary so I think that was my confusion. So when you say non towered airports, they actually mean very small airports that actually do not have a tower. So if I took off from an airport within the coverage map that isn't listed as one of the airports below but in real life has a tower, I would just tune into that and get coverage? I think that was my concern. Thanks!


KASE: Aspen-Pitkin County Airport
•KDEN: Denver International Airport
•KPDX: Portland International Airport
•KPHX: Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport
•KSEA: Seattle-Tacoma International Airport
•KSFO: San Francisco International Airport
•KSLC: Salt Lake City International Airport

[RyanK]

You're looking at the western US expansion airports. Every towered airport within the LA Center region has full ATC coverage as part of the base area. Check out the description and map here: http://www.pilotedge.net/pages/operatin ... rvice-area

[Zimmerbz]

Music to my ears. That answers my question and clears my confusion. Thanks

[Keith Smith]

Welcome to the network. I've updated the Western US page to make it more clear to new visitors that the Western US Expansion is just that, an expansion of an existing area, rather than a statement of the entire coverage area. I've also linked to the Operating Hours and Service Area page which does show the coverage area in its entirety, with all of the airports.

[Zimmerbz]

Ok.. Sorry about the back and forth. After reading through that I am second guessing my understanding. Let me give you hypotheticals to help me understand. Let's assume I am a paying member of the base and the expansion pack. Please help me understand what kind of coverage I would get in these circumstances.

1) KDEN-KSFO - I assume full coverage since these are always covered airports
2) KJAC-KDEN - if I tune JAC frequencies for clearance, etc., will the flight be covered? KJAC has a tower and ATC in real life and is within the expansion but not listed as one of the airports. Is this considered non towered?
3) KSNA-KTUS - how much coverage would I have? These are 2 airports within the base pack (I think) but are not primary airports per below.

I think those are my only coverage questions that I had. Thanks!


Sorry, I am just trying to get a grasp before I continue into a full subscription.

[Marcus Becker]

You're not understanding the concept of the Western "Expansion". You must consider the "expansion" as a whole different piece of the puzzle.

Los Angeles sector airports are covered and are a part of the basic PilotEdge subscription. There are no primary airports involved here. If it has a tower (except military) then PilotEdge has a tower controller waiting to talk to you within its operating hours.

The Western Expansion is an add-on product that will feature primary fields and rotating bonus fields. You must purchase this product as an add-on.
Primary

• KASE: Aspen-Pitkin County Airport
  KDEN: Denver International Airport
  KPDX: Portland International Airport
  KPHX: Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport
  KSEA: Seattle-Tacoma International Airport
  KSFO: San Francisco International Airport
  KSLC: Salt Lake City International Airport

Bonus

• KABQ: Albuquerque International Sunport Airport
  KEGE: Eagle County Regional Airport
  KRNO: Reno/Tahoe International Airport
  KYKM: Yakima Air Terminal
  KSAC: Sacramento Executive Airport
  KSJC: Norman Y. Mineta San Jose International Airport
  KGEG: Spokane International Airport
  KOAK: Metropolitan Oakland International Airport
  KMRY: Monterey Regional Airport
  KSMF: Sacramento International Airport

Everything on "primary" will have a controller waiting for you. Everything "bonus" will have a controller waiting for you as long as it is being featured in the rotation. If it isn't in ZLA and isn't on this list, you will not have a tower controller available to talk to you.

[Keith Smith]

1) KDEN-KSFO - I assume full coverage since these are always covered airports
2) KJAC-KDEN - if I tune JAC frequencies for clearance, etc., will the flight be covered? KJAC has a tower and ATC in real life and is within the expansion but not listed as one of the airports. Is this considered non towered?
3) KSNA-KTUS - how much coverage would I have? These are 2 airports within the base pack (I think) but are not primary airports per below.

In addition to Marcus' response, here are the specific scenarios that you were curious about:
1) DEN is a primary airport in the Western US expansion, so clnc/ground/tower are staffed. Same with SFO.

2) JAC is in the Salt Lake City ARTCC (part of the Western US Expansion) but isn't a primary or bonus airport, so there is no tower service there under any circumstance. Treat it as a non-towered airport and make announcements on the CTAF (which is the tower freq). You will pick up your clearance from there by talking to Center while on the ground (if radio coverage allows, otherwise, pick it up in the air). The communications block on airnav.com for JAC says:

CTAF: 118.075
...
JACKSON GROUND: 124.55 [0700-2100]
JACKSON TOWER: 118.075 [0700-2100]
...
APCH/DEP SVC PRVDD BY SALT LAKE ARTCC ON FREQS 133.25/285.6 (JACKSON RCAG).

So chances are you'll get the Center on the ground.

3) KSNA is in the primary coverage area (ZLA) so you'll get clnc/gnd/tower there. TUS is in the ZAB ARTCC (you can always see the ARTCC by looking at the airport data), which is part of the Western Expansion area. There's no tower service, and the TRACON isn't modeled (since we only model TRACONs that serve the primary and bonus airports),so you'll be talking to Center all the way in. You'll get cleared for a full approach (no vectors) and can cancel in the air or the ground. You'll announce on the CTAF at TUS (treating it as a non-towered airport).

[Zimmerbz]

Thanks everyone. This makes sense now. Thanks for your patience with my questions!