For real ? ATC are allowed to treat pilot like that ?

[cosmos40]

Is it me or some controller on pilot edge seems to think that they are allowed to talk to you like you are an army recruit ?

Let me explain here. Yesterday I was flying a ifr flight for the focus field. I had been given instructions by one of your female controller (which by the way is excellent and 100% professionnal, always helping and staying calm)

At some point she gave me some instructions, and than some others instruction that, for a newb like me "could" have been conflictual with he first instructions. Then while in flight, the controller changed. This dude, the new controller controller comes in. So i talk to him satating what are my intentions, not knowing if he knew where I was going. (I'm thinking he must know, but just to be sure). So he answers to me telling me that of course the other controller briefed him on the different flights happening and yadiyada. Asking me if I really tought that he wouldn't be briefed on the situation. The tone of his voice was like if I had asked him the most idiot question there ever was.
Than later on, I go on the frequency to ask for clarification on a vector. And ONCE again he telle me "I will clarify this confusion for you" in the must disespectful tone EVER. I was pissed.

Le me be clear. Pilot Edge is amazing. Most of the controllers are too. This female controller is seriously top notch, keith Smith i believe is too. But one of your controller, just doesn't seem to have a attitude problem, he HAS one.


Maby some could tell him that (in case he didn't knew) this is actually a learning environment ?


I wonder what he expect ? :

That all pilots are professionnal airline pilots ?
Maby he expect to have interraction with only 10 000 hours commercial pilots. I don't know.

Note: All ATC Controlloer except for this one have been extremely professionnal and to anyone thinking to join, it really is the best tool to learn. I would say it's freaking amazing.
Will also write to the email suggested insted of here...

[jtbarton]

It would be helpful if you could provide the time and recording so the situation can be more clear.

[Keith Smith]

Really hard to answer without hearing the recording. The forum is for community discussion and education. The community cannot help you with this....at all. I would suggest emailing ops@pilotedge.net as shown on the Contact page on the web site.

I understand that you're upset, but it's impossible for us to look into this further without more detail, and the forum isn't the best place for it...not because we have something to hide, but because there isn't a single person in the community who can help you resolve this.

[jtbarton]

Yes, Keith is right, send the e-mail. I was more going to provide clarification on the pilot error itself. Not trying to outstep my area of expertise sorry if it appeared that way. If you are inquiring on how to avoid the problem or are having trouble digesting the instruction itself, there are dozens of people willing to help you fly without error.

[Keith Smith]

cosmos40, we believe we located the recording of the event that you're describing. I normally wouldn't discuss in public but the original post is a little harsh to leave without a response as might leave potential new users concerned about the level of service provided on the network.

I'll be the first to say that there have been instances on the network of controllers (myself included) not showing a lot of patience and being less courteous than we would like. However, the recording doesn't appear to support what you outlined in your post, though. If you'd like to discuss further, please send a note to ops@pilotedge.net.

[Mudhen]

I understand your complaint. While I don’t have all the details, I thought it good to provide a perspective that can oftentimes be overlooked.
(I realize that English is not your first language. If you would like me to clarify some points, then ask and I will.)
To preface: All controllers are required to be safe, efficient, and professional, at all levels of customer flight experience, all the time.
But all controllers are thoroughly human, and not all pilot experience levels are the same. And therein lies the point of view I wish to offer.
A friend of mine rightly noted, “Air traffic control is like getting pecked to death by chickens.”
Why?
Because we see the same things every single day we work. Over, and over, and over, again.
The same mistakes - the same long-winded, pointless, speeches made by pilots over the frequency - the same attitudes by self-absorbed pilots who think they know better than we do
– the same pilots stepping on the frequency and not listening for read back - the same repeats of control instructions - the same “cool, unprofessional speak” from the “bitchin” pilots,
and so on, and on, and on.
Over time this can rub even the best controller’s skin raw.
Further, Air Traffic Control is an emotionally-charged career field. We do almost everything based on time and conditions in a way that is set to provide the safest and most efficient service to the pilot.
When anything interrupts that safety or efficiency, then the emotions can begin to get hot.
Let me give some examples:

Safety related, (Life threatening, time critical information.)
“Cessna 12345 traffic alert, advise you climb immediately.”
Pilot - “Say again”
Although this is a simple example, safety related control instructions that are either missed by the pilot, or worse, disobeyed or ignored, are the surest way to set off a controller.
The primary purpose for the Air Traffic system is to prevent a collision between aircraft operating in that system. Safety, therefore, is prime and not taken lightly by controllers when pilots fail to respond accordingly.

Efficiency related, (Intended to provide the best service in the timeliest manner.)
“Cessna 12345, Five miles from Petis, turn left heading 280, maintain 4,200 until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26L approach.
Pilot - No response.
“Cessna 12345, So. Cal. approach, how do you hear me?”
Pilot - No response.
“Cessna 12345, reply not received, if you hear me ident.”
Pilot - “We hear you loud and clear and are flying through the localizer, can we get an approach clearance?”

When the pilot "knows" better than the controller:
“Approach, we see someone on TCAS, should we be concerned?”
“Approach, do you want us on the next frequency”
“Approach, can we get lower?”
“Approach, is that unrestricted?”

Cool-Speak. (This type of “pilot-speak” is not cool, or original, or creative, every-single-time!)
“We have the field in sight, when it helps.” It doesn’t help. If you want the visual approach, ask for it.
“We see him on the fish finder.” Utterly useless. I only want you to see traffic with your eyes, or not at all.
“Twenty-four fifty-seven in the box with a flash.” How about, “squawk-2-4-5-7 and ident.”
And the ever-tiresome
“With you”

While many more examples could be provided, I just want you to get a glimpse of what we hear and experience every day.
Does this provide an excuse for controllers to lose their temper? NO. But remember, all controllers are human.
Some can withstand more than others and remain professional, while others can, unintentionally, allow their emotions to bleed over on the frequency. It just happens.
My advice here is to do your best not to take it personally. This is especially true considering the infrequency of the outbursts.

PilotEdge: In my opinion Pilotedge is the best online Air Traffic service that can be found.
(And that’s 30 years of RADAR Air Traffic experience talking!)
But, and this is crucial, it is different from real world ATC in terms of what it is intended to provide.

Real world ATC - "The primary purpose of the ATC system is to prevent a collision between aircraft operating in the system and to organize and to expedite the flow of traffic…”

PilotEdge ATC - To provide immersive, high-quality simulated ATC for the flight sim enthusiast.
To provide a variety of detailed training environments allowing the customer to progress from a fledgling student pilot to a rated commercial user.
To provide a community of like-minded devotees and friends to interact in a familial setting and share each other’s passion for flight.
(And if you’re like me, to provide an environment where I can drive the controllers bananas with my stupid requests.)
As the front page reads, “…Put on your headset, dial up ground, and call for taxi. It's that easy.”

Easy for the customer. Sometimes, not so easy for the controllers. On PilotEdge, they too see the same mistakes repeated, time and time again.
But here’s the difference: In the real world I don’t care how you feel. All I’m concerned with is that you get up and out of my airspace as safely and quickly as possible: Maximal Safety, Minimal Delay.
On PilotEdge, they have the added detail of being concerned with your happiness and satisfaction while providing this service. Why? Because if you get dissatisfied, you might just terminate your subscription.
That’s not a good business model.
So in a sense, PilotEdge has to concern themselves the emotional side of customer service, in other words, how you "feel."
That’s not an easy task to accomplish because we all know how finicky people can be.
So what’s the answer?
Here are some tips that may be beneficial.
1. Unless you have a sound, logical reason for assuming otherwise, always assume the controller knows what you’re doing at all times.
2. Learn patience. This is very hard to develop. But do your best to be patient, even when the controller’s emotions may be spilling over onto the frequency. Try hard not to add to his/her present difficulty.
3. Remember, that at times, only one controller may be responsible for all the airspace covered by P/E and, they may be seated working for hours without a break. If you’re concerned you have been forgotten, then a gentle nudge by way of an innocent question may be all it takes for the controller to re-focus on you. Simply ask, “Can you repeat the altimeter setting for me?”
4. Remember that the majority of users on P/E are not real world pilots. P/E controllers have the additional task of having to correct pilots more often than in real world ATC. If you get corrected, and it’s warranted but terse, like water off a duck’s back, try to let it go. Learn from your mistake, but try not to take it personally.
5. If you have a real concern, then deal with it privately rather than a public forum.
6. Remember that controllers are human. While they may sound robotic, they too have a life outside of P/E. And, as with everybody, there may be things behind the scenes that are affecting the controller’s emotion. When you have difficulties in your life and find yourself becoming impatient, remember that controllers can have difficulties causing the same response. Try to exercise empathy.
This is quite a lengthy response, but I hope it sheds some light and is received with the same good will in which it was written.

[Greg Pfeil]

I for one would much rather be chewed out for a mistake I make on here, than in the real world system.

[Ryan B]

I understand your complaint. While I don’t have all the details, I thought it good to provide a perspective that can oftentimes be overlooked.
...

Haha, your examples are spot on.

I don't know the original context either, but I'm guessing the controller was just trying to be direct/clear, and likely not trying to be an @$$.

[Matthias Geiss]

...
This is quite a lengthy response, but I hope it sheds some light and is received with the same good will in which it was written.

Thanks for that! Although I guess most of us can imagine it being like that, it's nice to have some behind the scenes insight.
Being just a sim pilot myself with less than 20 hours of online flying experience (albeit all on PE), I was always amazed by the amount of paitence that the controllers show and more than once could I imagine how the controller had to bite his tounge behind the mic over something I did wrong.

Unfortunately, I had to cancel my membership for personal reasons, but I hope tthat I can rejoin the circus in 3 (or so) years. Maybe we'll even have a european devision then and some super-calm british controllers.

[Althar93]

+1 to what Mudhen said - in particular :

On PilotEdge, they have the added detail of being concerned with your happiness and satisfaction while providing this service. Why? Because if you get dissatisfied, you might just terminate your subscription.

Along the same lines of being "told off", or for a better term "educated" on your mistakes as a "paying customer", it can be frustrating to be sat on the frequency & not being able to get a word in. Part & package of PE, and the reason why most of us pay for the service is for the congestion & the fact that there are other people out there.

I myself had this happen the other day (and I am sure most of you have as well at some point in your PE/RW career) - Janevah was controlling at the time & everyone kept stepping on each other. I must have tried to call in for my IFR clearance about 5-6 times; after listening to the recording, turns out ALL my requests had been stepped on (or argueably I was the one stepping on other people, depending on your perspective). After about an hour, I gave up but not without realising that for that entire time I had been intently listening to what was going on & passively practicing my radio skills.

I was quite frankly impressed by the ATC's patience & resolve; you could hear her voice breaking into nervous laughter at times but not once did she snap and/or "lose it". Top-notch service if you ask me, from either Janevah, Keith, or any of the PE staff.

Spent an hour grounded without being able to place a word in - would do it again!