DP then picking up IFR

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gsuoumu
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:42 am

DP then picking up IFR

Post by gsuoumu »

I joined last year and felt like I was starting to make good progress and then I took some time off. Back now and trying to get back into things and decided I'd try to take a trip around the Western US hitting every towered field. Started at KAMA and worked my way up to KCOS with a stop at KCAO. My trip from KCAO to KCOS was going to turn from dusk to night so I decided I'd depart VFR and pick up an IFR clearance in the air.

The DP out of KCAO for Runway 20 says to "climb heading 201 to 5500 before turning right". Now with the weather being VFR I was able to do that and head towards V81 to Tobe, but once I called ABQ Center to pick up the IFR clearance I was told I'd need to climb above the 11,100 MVA before they could give me one. Makes sense and since it was still VFR weather I was able to do so safely.

My question for the future is more along the lines of - if it was IMC what would be the correct procedure? The DP says to get to 5500 and turn right, but is there a specific course or climb gradient I need to maintain to stay safe until I reach V81? Obviously after I hit V81 I need to be above 8800.

Probably an easier answer to this than I'm thinking of right now and taking the past 8 months or so off away from things I've forgotten info I learned through the I-ratings or the workshops. But I can't think of the obvious answer myself right now.

Thanks. Happy to be back - learning about all these things is fascinating to me.
Marcus Becker
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:12 pm

Re: DP then picking up IFR

Post by Marcus Becker »

Part of the issue is out of your hands and out of PilotEdge's hands too. The fact of the matter is that PilotEdge hasn't received all of the data it's requested from the FAA. If you notice the MSA on a low enroute chart over KCAO, that is what the controllers have to work with for now. Flying VFR at night is not a problem (legally) in the US. If you can navigate your way to V81 while maintaining VFR and pick up your request from a waypoint along the airway, that is always a possibility, just don't expect vectors to get there. Hopefully, PilotEdge will get the MVA data from the FAA soon and this type of procedure will be a non-issue.
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Keith Smith
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Re: DP then picking up IFR

Post by Keith Smith »

200ft/nm is the standard climb gradient unless published otherwise. In this case, the ODP requires a slightly higher climb gradient up to a choice of altitudes depending on the runway you used for departure.

The controller could've issued the clearance prior to the airway, they just can't vector you below the MVA. As Marcus said, our MVA data for that area is incomplete, but even so, that doesn't preclude the clearance being issued. You would just be on the hook for terrain and obstacle separation until reaching the MEA for the airway, and the controller would be unable to vector you prior to that.

Interestingly, the ODP only has heading to fly until a certain altitude if you're turning a certain direction. This means you can effectively fly a diverse departure if you turn the other way (200ft/nm until reaching the MEA for the airway).
gsuoumu
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:42 am

Re: DP then picking up IFR

Post by gsuoumu »

Keith Smith wrote:The controller could've issued the clearance prior to the airway, they just can't vector you below the MVA. As Marcus said, our MVA data for that area is incomplete, but even so, that doesn't preclude the clearance being issued. You would just be on the hook for terrain and obstacle separation until reaching the MEA for the airway, and the controller would be unable to vector you prior to that.
I thought about picking up the IFR clearance on the ground but figured I'd just depart VFR since I could maintain VFR minimums based on the weather.

But let's say it was IMC and I was able to pick up the clearance on the ground. Since the controller can't vector me below 11,100 is it feasible to depart safely? My gut says yes as long as I follow the ODP procedure correctly and then turn right maintaining 200ft/nm until I reach V81. But that's a long way to go between 5500 and 11,100 without being able to see.

Thanks for your help guys.
Keith Smith
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Re: DP then picking up IFR

Post by Keith Smith »

Definitely watch the workshop on ODP's. They are designed to get you from the airport to the enroute structure safely. Lean on them heavily and be confident. Vectors are not the answer. Yes, you could pick up the clnc on the ground, entire IMC and fly it with confidence, that's what they're for.
gsuoumu
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:42 am

Re: DP then picking up IFR

Post by gsuoumu »

Keith Smith wrote:Definitely watch the workshop on ODP's. They are designed to get you from the airport to the enroute structure safely. Lean on them heavily and be confident. Vectors are not the answer. Yes, you could pick up the clnc on the ground, entire IMC and fly it with confidence, that's what they're for.
I watched the ODP workshop but that was a long time ago and I've forgotten it, I suppose. I'll have to check that out again tomorrow.
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