Flight Planning: KPSP - KSAN

Flight Planning: KPSP - KSAN

Postby thingsis » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:08 am

Hi,

still trying to figure out all this airspace stuff - so sorry for asking another question... ;)

If I were to fly from KPSP to KSAN and would be cleared through the Class Bravo airspace, that would not include the underlying Class Delta airspaces I assume, correct? The reason for the question is that the MYF Class Delta is pretty close, which makes it difficult to avoid. Then again to approach the airport I might have to go slightly east or west anyway.

How would you go about this?

Thanks for all the help!
Henrik
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Re: Flight Planning: KPSP - KSAN

Postby jx_ » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:40 pm

If you are receiving radar services, then you are in two-way communication with approach control which means you can transition Charlie and Delta airspace unless verbally restricted by ATC.

You require a verbal clearance to enter A or B airspace and two-way communications to enter C or D airspace.
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Re: Flight Planning: KPSP - KSAN

Postby sono » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:00 pm

jx_ wrote:and two-way communications to enter C or D airspace.


Two way communication with the controlling authority for the airspace.

Typically for class c that freq is shown in the red rectangles

For class d - it is typically the tower. bear in mind tower may not have radar..
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Re: Flight Planning: KPSP - KSAN

Postby zerofay32 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:30 pm

Approach will try and work a class D transition behind the scenes if it looks necessary. A lot of TRACONS will have Letters of Athorization (LOAs) with underlying Towers that allow them to transition aircraft through the top 1000' of the Deltas with no coordination required. From the pilot side, this all happens in the background. If approach needs you to talk to tower, they will send you over.

For a flight into KSAN, look very closely at the Bravo airspace. You will notice a Corridor of class E airspace that gets you right on top of KSAN. Get flight following and plan to fly the corridor until they hand you to tower. If it is slow, you may get a bravo clearance before then but it's always good to plan for not getting it. Remember you can ask for a Bravo clearance or even ask for the chances of getting one once you get closer so that you can plan ahead. But it's all on the pilot to remain clear until given the magic words.

EDIT: Also, I would be remissed if I didn't mention, the second half of the CAT11 (KLAX->KSAN) will offer some guidance on heading into KSAN (although from the coast, which would be an option for your flight but maybe a bit out of the way). But it is six to one, half dozen the other whether you approach along the shoreline or from the East.
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Re: Flight Planning: KPSP - KSAN

Postby thingsis » Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:16 am

Thanks for all the input!

Last night I bit the bullet and just did it. I took off from Palm Springs receiving flight following, which I did not request, but it ended up being a good idea after all. I was given the option of coming in via the coast or from the east overflying Gillespie Airport - which is what I ended up doing. It worked really well. I am sure the controller noticed I am not the most experienced pilot out there, but I also don't think I made any major mistakes. It was a great learning experience after all. It is fun to try new things and I am really not worried about being on the radio anymore at all. As long as you do your research upfront the worst thing that can happen is that you are in over your head and tell the controller you will disconnect. Don't think it would be a problem. I didn't have to do that yet though.
Anyway, could somebody explain why he could not bring me in from the north? Is it just because of congestion and traffic or is there something in the chart that I should have noticed up front?

Thanks again!
Henrik
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Re: Flight Planning: KPSP - KSAN

Postby Keith Smith » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:03 am

As long as you do your research upfront the worst thing that can happen is that you are in over your head and tell the controller you will disconnect.


Pilots have to deal with the possibility of becoming overwhelmed during training. Airplanes don't have pause or disconnect buttons, therefore a better solution is to work out how to deal with situations that are thrown at you. A couple of lazy 360's can effectively hit the pause button on a flight while you regroup, get your bearings and come up with a plan. I say that not because you have to do it just like the real world, but because once you start disconnecting at the first sign of stress, that will likely become a default solution at the slightest sign of confusion. Long term, you'll learn more by facing the challenges in real time than disconnecting and starting over each time.

Regarding flight following, PSP is a TRSA which means you're going to receive radar service by default when you first depart (unless you specifically say "negative radar service.") My guess is that when you called for taxi, you perhaps mentioned that you were "VFR to KSAN," which many controllers will interpret as a request for flight following. If your intention is not to receive flight following, then I would only specify and initial direction of flight instead of a destination (if that is indeed what happened).

In terms of why the controller couldn't bring you in from the north, I the Miramar MCAS Bravo is combined with KSAN's. When you plan for the flight, you should allow for the possibility that you're not going to get a Bravo clearance until you're approaching the surface-based Bravo for the destination airport. Hence, I would plan to route east or west of Miramar.
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Re: Flight Planning: KPSP - KSAN

Postby thingsis » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:37 am

Keith,

thanks a lot for that "hint". I like to keep things as realistic as possible and the 360s are definitely something I will remember. I was just trying to encourage other people reading this to just try new stuff - as long as they do their research and therefor don't disturb the others. Yet I would not have had the idea of the 360s - so great tip - thanks!

I just listened to the recording and I requested "taxi to the active for a southbound departure". Yet again, I was aware of PSP being a TRSA, but it seems not of all the implications. I should probably have expected flight following or used your phrase "negative radar services". There is just so much to learn... ;)

Thanks also for the explanation of the Bravo airspace around Miramar and KSAN. Makes sense now.

Keith, I know many people only say something when they have a complaint, but your commitment and help you provide to all your customers is really awesome! Just wanted to mention...

Thanks again,
Henrik
Current Rating: CAT-9
Main Aircrafts: SIAI-Marchetti SF.260 & Cessna T210M
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Re: Flight Planning: KPSP - KSAN

Postby Keith Smith » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:06 am

Henrik,

You're welcome. Thanks for the additional info. It's interesting that you hadn't requested advisories but still received them. The controller must've been feeling generous as you left the TRSA. :)
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Re: Flight Planning: KPSP - KSAN

Postby sono » Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:07 pm

Keith Smith wrote:
Pilots have to deal with the possibility of becoming overwhelmed during training.


How about dropping the "during training" as well!
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