Student Pilot Wanting to Learn Faster

Discussions surrounding the software that lets pilots connect to PilotEdge and the actual simulators
500nmMission
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:47 pm

Student Pilot Wanting to Learn Faster

Post by 500nmMission »

My question is what sim software and equipment should I buy.

I'm nearing retirement age and have always wanted to learn how to fly. Got my medical and started flying, found that I could not do ground school and fly two to three times a week, got discouraged and laid off for nearly a year. Now I'm back focusing on ground school. I'll take my private pilot knowledge test before the end of the month (maybe as early as next week). Then I plan to immerse myself in learning flying.

I read Rob Machado's article in AOPA Pilot Mag - June 2014 issue. He said, "If you want to learn to fly on a budget, then learn to fly before you learn to fly. " http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All- ... nsetolearn

He says to buy a sim, controls and books. He mentioned MS Sim X and X-Plane (I know he has been involved in the MS product).

My objective is to learn to fly and then keep my skills sharp as I can on a budget that doesn't entail flying as much as I would prefer by keeping involved in the pilot community, studying and practicing the PE network. I'm excited about finding Pilot Edge - gee the annual upfront fee is cheaper than just a little time in the plane with an instructor!! Any suggestions as to what software, controls and educational materials? Yes, I am on a budget, but consider good tools a wise investment.

I am looking forward to getting involved in the network after I pass my PP Written.

Thanks
500nmMission
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Student Pilot Wanting to Learn Faster

Post by 500nmMission »

I was taking my lessons is a C-150/150, but also have access to a 150 with the standard engine and a 172.

My dream is to have a fully refurbished Mooney M20J or a Lancair, but will probably never own my own plane. A club or partnership in a 172 is more likely.
matt
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Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Student Pilot Wanting to Learn Faster

Post by matt »

There is no right answer on which simulator to use. That answer will depend on a lot of variables. I use X-Plane, so I am partial to that product. You can't go wrong with X-Plane. Here are just some selling points:
  • X-Plane is not a game, but a serious flight simulator.
  • X-Plane is in active development by original developer. Microsoft had shut down the ACES Game Studio (the department that developed the MS Flight Simulator) back in 2009. However, I have heard a shop called Dovetail Games will resume development of the product soon.
  • X-Plane has an awesome realistic flight model. I don't know the status of this with MS Flight Sim.
  • X-Plane runs on Mac, Windows and Linux.
  • X-Plane is highly customizable. I know MS Flight Sim is customizable, but I don't know to what extent.
Like I said, those are just a couple of partial selling points for X-Plane. Now, for controls, I would recommend you check out: http://bit.ly/1pVo0NW

Have fun!
500nmMission
Posts: 11
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Re: Student Pilot Wanting to Learn Faster

Post by 500nmMission »

Thank you, Matt.

Are their others here who feel strongly about MS FS or have other suggestions for yoke, pedals and other hardware?

Thanks
Keith Smith
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Re: Student Pilot Wanting to Learn Faster

Post by Keith Smith »

500nmmission, I do have thoughts on this, but don't have the bandwidth to write a decent length reply. I'll try my best to get some thoughts down tonight or tomorrow.
jay9909
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Student Pilot Wanting to Learn Faster

Post by jay9909 »

There was also a workshop on this topic which I found really helpful when I started my primary flight training: http://www.pilotedge.net/workshops/flig ... t-training
Steven Winslow
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Re: Student Pilot Wanting to Learn Faster

Post by Steven Winslow »

I highly recommend X-Plane. x-plane.com Version 9.7 is still available for half the price of V10. Both versions provide accurate flight models, but V10 is current technology with many improvements. V9.7 will run better on marginal or older computer systems. For gear, I have all the Saitek Panels, Saitek Yoke, Saitek Rudder Pedals and Saitek TPM module. These are all available from x-plane.org at reasonable prices. I have two Saitek Radio Panels: one for Nav radios and the other for Com. I also have the Switch Panel and the Multi Panel that includes an autopilot that comes in handy from time to time. I do mostly hand flying, but the auto pilot is nice for longer cross country flights. There are many more expensive hardware solutions, depending on your budget and your immersion desires. Here are a few links:

http://simulators.redbirdflight.com/training-devices

https://www.flyelite.com/hardware/

https://www.flypfc.com/?/products
Steven Winslow
CEO/Owner - Air Northwest Virtual Airlines • http://www.airnorthwest.org
People should get what they want when they want it once in a while. Keeps them optimisitic.
wmburns
Posts: 474
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Re: Student Pilot Wanting to Learn Faster

Post by wmburns »

The problem with this thread is we really need to have more information about what YOU want and what YOUR expectations are. And perhaps just as importantly, what are your RESOURCES.

Absolutely crazy sums of money, time, effort could be spent building the "best" home simulator. Do all of us have the resources (time, money, space, experience) to build it?

Also consider the answer is very different if the price difference between X-Plane V9 and V10 is important to you.

On the other hand, you may be able to justify spending more on a home sim because it will off set the high cost of lessons in a real plane.

I personally have struggled for over 2 years trying to get the right "balance" in my home sim. I did not want to go down the rabbit hole of spending $1,000's trying to get the "perfect" sim. But I still wanted something that mostly works like an airplane. My current sim is:
  • X-Plane 10.30 (latest Beta) ($60 for World edition)
  • Windows 7 64 bit ($100 on sale)
  • PC is a late generation home built I5 (Haswell) (about $350 assuming some parts laying around)
  • Mid level Nvidia 750 graphics ($130)
  • Saitek yoke ($135)
  • Saitek throttle Quadrant (extra for twin engines) ($53)
  • Saitek rudder pedals ($150)
  • Saitek radio stack (single unit) ($136)
  • 24" wide screen
Amazon cost of Saitek physical gear is about $475.

The above set up gives 60-100 frames per second which I consider more than enough.

I fly almost exclusively the X-Plane default Baron. So I haven't as yet invested much $$ into better airplanes.

But the above set up has drastically cut the number of operations that require the use of a keyboard and mouse. This means I can fly the airplane instead of messing with the keyboard and mouse. Or remembering key combinations!

OBTW, I have both FSX and X-plane and do switch back and forth. One of the big benefits of the "physical hardware" is it does reduce the differences between X-plane and FSX thus making the switch easier.
Last edited by wmburns on Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
500nmMission
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Student Pilot Wanting to Learn Faster

Post by 500nmMission »

Thanks so much for these comments! It appears my original question was move naïve than I suspected. I'll spend time with these resources after I take my PP knowledge exam on Wednesday morning. I have to admit that I spent more time reviewing them today than I had intended.

I very much doubt that am going to spend thousands to get set up with a sim, although I had previously run some numbers with the thought in mind that I would put together a club to buy a Redbird Jay.

Wonder what is the minimum necessary to spend to get some benefit? I would guess that with the cheapest software and almost no hardware, there is more benefit than cost.

I would also suppose that the median investment of the participants of this forum is more than I imagined that I would spend! WmBurns, what do you have into your setup?

More later in the week.
Keith Smith
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Re: Student Pilot Wanting to Learn Faster

Post by Keith Smith »

Wouldn't recommend the Jay if you plan to fly on PilotEdge. I'd recommend X-Plane for the tighter integration. There is also no provision for a PTT on the Jay.

FWIW, I fly with a $20 joystick and a $100 set of rudder pedals. I don't mind using keyboard or mouse to set the radios because, at least for what I'm looking for, it's about the thought process, not the physical actions (so long as the physical actions don't take so much time as to generate unreasonably high workload). This is why I don't really care if I'm navigating via GPS or a VOR...course tracking concepts are the same either way. The thought process behind most approaches boils down to whether it's precision or non-precision and whether it's vectors to final, the full approach, or being cleared to a fix somewhere along the approach.

Whether I set the radios with a mouse, the keyboard or a perfect replica of a radio stack, the moment I've made the decision to look up and tune a frequency, the training value is realized.

This is also why I don't particularly care whether I'm flying a Baron, a Tiger, the MU-2 or a CRJ-200...the thought process is generally the same (specific systems knowledge requirements aside). "Where am I now? Where am I going next? How will I know when I get there? What's the energy state of the airplane?" Those are how I fly and how i practice. I try not to get caught up in requiring a particular piece of hardware to be present for it to be a meaningful training experience.

For people who fly sims purely for entertainment, I can see why there is a chase to have the highest fidelity replication that you can afford to acquire. In my case, I'm not trying to replicate the physical hardware, I'm trying to replicate the thought process. Jeff Van West said it beautifully in IFR Magazine when he asked readers to read through a scenario and then think about what they'd do to resolve the situation. "Congratulations," he said, "you just took part in a simulation." His point that it's all about the thought process when it comes to training for proficiency.

Primary training is a slightly different ball of wax, though. There are actually some dangers, thanks to the laws of primacy, associated with using a PC for stick & rudder training and then taking that to the airplane, unless you're very careful to realize that the PC controls behave somewhat differently to an airplane.

Give it some thought, then try to determine what's important to you. Primary training is largely about ground reference maneuvers and pattern work...two of the hardest things to do in a sim! The sim will be amazing for emergencies, comms, airspace awareness and XC navigation for your primary training, but the stuff you'll be doing right out of the gate (straight and level, cilmbs and descents, turns, steep turns, slow flight, stalls, ground reference maneuvers and pattern work) is going to be hard to replicate in the sim.
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