[Tue Jul 3] Commercial partnership demo @ KPSP

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Keith Smith
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Re: [Tue Jul 3] Commercial partnership demo @ KPSP

Post by Keith Smith »

Hi Steve,

That brings up an interesting case. Are you saying there was traffic that had been ordered to "line up and wait" and you had an active touch and go clearance at the time?

As your spider senses were telling you...that is no longer legal. If that happens, ATC should cancel your touch and go clearance and tell you to "continue". Only once the traffic in position starts their takeoff roll can your touch & go or landing clearance be issued again.

This rule was instituted (at least based on my understanding) to avoid a case where traffic was cleared for takeoff, an aircraft was put into position and hold, and then another aircraft was cleared to land, the controller anticipating that he'd "get the guy out of there with lots of time." Well, then there's a distraction or a land line call, and before you know it, the landing traffic has an intimate encounter with the aircraft in position!

I'm not positive that's what happened without listening to the recordings....but at the very least, this is a useful thought exercise and a good reminder to all pilots to be vigilant in traffic patterns and busy terminal areas. "Trust, but verify" when it comes to working with ATC. Remember, if your're wrong, you die. If ATC is wrong.....you die :)
Ryan Geckler
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Re: [Tue Jul 3] Commercial partnership demo @ KPSP

Post by Ryan Geckler »

To play advocate of ATC here, this scenerio is legal if the safety logic system is fully functional and in operation in the tower. To the best of my knowledge, PSP does not have this technology. However, many larger airports do, which is why they can do it.
Ryan Geckler | ERAU CTI Graduate
PilotEdge Air Traffic Control Specialist
Keith Smith
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Re: [Tue Jul 3] Commercial partnership demo @ KPSP

Post by Keith Smith »

Good point. We definitely don't have it on PE, though. Our technology isn't far ahead of these guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa_gZ_7sdZg (see 1 min 26)
Steven Winslow
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Re: [Tue Jul 3] Commercial partnership demo @ KPSP

Post by Steven Winslow »

I just listened to the audio to see if I could determine when this happened. If you listen here:

http://www.pilotedge.net/recordings/hou ... _18011.mp3 from 9:43-9:58 you can actually hear the uncertainty as I say "traffic in sight" as I was on short final. From my perspective I wasn't sure he was going to make it before I came in. I slowed as much as I could and delayed my final descent and it all worked out okay. It was one of the more interesting experiences I've had on PE, for sure!
Steven Winslow
CEO/Owner - Air Northwest Virtual Airlines • http://www.airnorthwest.org
People should get what they want when they want it once in a while. Keeps them optimisitic.
Keith Smith
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Re: [Tue Jul 3] Commercial partnership demo @ KPSP

Post by Keith Smith »

Yep, you were cleared for touch and go, then he put an aircraft in position. The good news is, the traffic in position wasn't forgotten :) The controller was hard at work, I can see how this could happen fairly easily. I've done it a number of times myself and only noticed it after thinking the scenarios through.

Excellent scenario, I'm glad you brought it up!
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