Socal Logistics to Catalina IFR
The arrival at Catalina seems not to be without its own hazards!
Rwy 04–22 surface rough with numerous potholes and soft
spots. Potholes and loose pavement fragments on rwy
http://digitalthemepark.blogspot.co.uk/ ... 12-at.html
[Dec 28, 2200z] DTP Flyout KVCV - KAVX
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Mark Hargrove
- Posts: 401
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:42 pm
- Location: Longmont, CO
Re: [Dec 28, 2200z] DTP Flyout KVCV - KAVX
Since I missed the flight planning session, is there a preferred route for this flight? Is there a ground and/or air frequency used by the group for coordination before and during the flight?
Note that AVX has a very short runway -- it's only 3000 feet.
I have an amusing story about AVX from my student pilot days back just after the dawn of flight. Well, technically, around 1975 -- but feels like it was that long ago.
I did my primary flight instruction out of Van Nuys aiport, and AVX was a common short dual cross-country destination back then -- a quick hop through the VFR corridor over LAX, then out over the Pacific to Catalina. The diner on the airport made great bufallo burgers, with the meat coming from a herd of bufallo that was raised right there on the island. Flight instructors would offer a bit of a sucker bet to students: if you lock up the brakes on the landing rollout, you have to buy the burgers. If you land normally, the instructor would buy the burgers.
The situation for Catalina airport is this: there is a cliff at both ends of the runway. Instructors would remind the student of this more than once during the preflight briefing and during the flight. And then again during the approach. The cliff is particularly visible on the approach to Rwy 22 (and you can see this in FSX).
On approach, all the student pilot is really focused on is that cliff face just below the runway threshold, and that weird pulsating approach slope indicator the airport has (flashing white for high, steady white for on glidepath, stead red for low, flashing red for dangerously low) which few students have ever seen before. Because of the cliff, every student's approach is high and typically a little fast as a result of being high.
As you touchdown, you give a heartfelt sigh of relief and wait for the nose to drop. As soon as it does, you find yourself looking at the rapidly approaching end of the runway (at the end of which you know is another cliff). You slam on the brakes and leave skid marks (at roughly the same place as hundreds of other students have left skid marks). Taxiing to the first turnoff (just short of mid-field) you cannot for the life of you figure out where your panic came from -- there's plenty of runway left! Your instructor, meanwhile, is happily chortling over his upcoming free lunch.
During the so-called safety briefing where you were being warned (repeatedly!) about the cliffs, the instructor carefully didn't tell you that the runway is crowned. You land going uphill a bit, then at about midfield the runway starts downhill to the departure end. It's not a severe crown, but it's just enough that you can't see the full length of the runway when you land -- you can only see to the crest, which is about at mid-field, along with a vast number of skid marks leading right up to (and beyond) what looks like the end of the runway.
It's a complete sucker bet -- about 95% of instructors get a free lunch from that particular bet, even if somebody spilled the secret to the student before the flight.
Unfortunately, this "crowning" effect isn't modeled well in FSX, and if you have "runway follows terrain" turned off in XP (as PE wants you to do), I don't think you'll see it in XP either. Too bad -- it's quite a nerve-wracking illusion the first time you land at AVX.
-M.
Note that AVX has a very short runway -- it's only 3000 feet.
I have an amusing story about AVX from my student pilot days back just after the dawn of flight. Well, technically, around 1975 -- but feels like it was that long ago.
I did my primary flight instruction out of Van Nuys aiport, and AVX was a common short dual cross-country destination back then -- a quick hop through the VFR corridor over LAX, then out over the Pacific to Catalina. The diner on the airport made great bufallo burgers, with the meat coming from a herd of bufallo that was raised right there on the island. Flight instructors would offer a bit of a sucker bet to students: if you lock up the brakes on the landing rollout, you have to buy the burgers. If you land normally, the instructor would buy the burgers.
The situation for Catalina airport is this: there is a cliff at both ends of the runway. Instructors would remind the student of this more than once during the preflight briefing and during the flight. And then again during the approach. The cliff is particularly visible on the approach to Rwy 22 (and you can see this in FSX).
On approach, all the student pilot is really focused on is that cliff face just below the runway threshold, and that weird pulsating approach slope indicator the airport has (flashing white for high, steady white for on glidepath, stead red for low, flashing red for dangerously low) which few students have ever seen before. Because of the cliff, every student's approach is high and typically a little fast as a result of being high.
As you touchdown, you give a heartfelt sigh of relief and wait for the nose to drop. As soon as it does, you find yourself looking at the rapidly approaching end of the runway (at the end of which you know is another cliff). You slam on the brakes and leave skid marks (at roughly the same place as hundreds of other students have left skid marks). Taxiing to the first turnoff (just short of mid-field) you cannot for the life of you figure out where your panic came from -- there's plenty of runway left! Your instructor, meanwhile, is happily chortling over his upcoming free lunch.
During the so-called safety briefing where you were being warned (repeatedly!) about the cliffs, the instructor carefully didn't tell you that the runway is crowned. You land going uphill a bit, then at about midfield the runway starts downhill to the departure end. It's not a severe crown, but it's just enough that you can't see the full length of the runway when you land -- you can only see to the crest, which is about at mid-field, along with a vast number of skid marks leading right up to (and beyond) what looks like the end of the runway.
It's a complete sucker bet -- about 95% of instructors get a free lunch from that particular bet, even if somebody spilled the secret to the student before the flight.
Unfortunately, this "crowning" effect isn't modeled well in FSX, and if you have "runway follows terrain" turned off in XP (as PE wants you to do), I don't think you'll see it in XP either. Too bad -- it's quite a nerve-wracking illusion the first time you land at AVX.
-M.
Mark Hargrove
Longmont, CO
PE: N757SL (Cessna 182T 'Skylane'), N757SM (Cessna 337 'Skymaster'), N757BD (Beech Duke Turbine)
Longmont, CO
PE: N757SL (Cessna 182T 'Skylane'), N757SM (Cessna 337 'Skymaster'), N757BD (Beech Duke Turbine)
Re: [Dec 28, 2200z] DTP Flyout KVCV - KAVX
Hi Mark
Nice story, not sure who will be buying the burgers on this trip though.
I would anticipate a mix of a/c, Scout, Legacy types.
As stated elsewhere the Flight Planning is a bit of a brain storming session giving the opportunity to ask questions & hopefully get correct answers to aid us on the way.
There is no agreed / correct route so more than one route can be flown. We sort of pray for a "cleared to ### as filed" rather than having to copy a full clearance.
We tend to chat before & during the flight in the PE channel on DTP TS (best to make sure you have a TS "mute" key available for when you don't want to be disturbed).
I should be on TS from 1930z so hope to see you then.
Nice story, not sure who will be buying the burgers on this trip though.
I would anticipate a mix of a/c, Scout, Legacy types.
As stated elsewhere the Flight Planning is a bit of a brain storming session giving the opportunity to ask questions & hopefully get correct answers to aid us on the way.
There is no agreed / correct route so more than one route can be flown. We sort of pray for a "cleared to ### as filed" rather than having to copy a full clearance.
We tend to chat before & during the flight in the PE channel on DTP TS (best to make sure you have a TS "mute" key available for when you don't want to be disturbed).
I should be on TS from 1930z so hope to see you then.
Re: [Dec 28, 2200z] DTP Flyout KVCV - KAVX
It was fun, especially VFR operations in crowd at the end 
Cheers for everybody.
Cheers for everybody.Piotr Ratajczak
PE: RealAir Duke Turbine (N609PR), PMDG B737-800 (N738PR, LOTxxxx)
PE: RealAir Duke Turbine (N609PR), PMDG B737-800 (N738PR, LOTxxxx)
Re: [Dec 28, 2200z] DTP Flyout KVCV - KAVX
Hi Prat
Glad you enjoyed it. So did I, even though I made a "small" mistake on the VOR/DME approach into catalina. Put simply I suffered a bit of finger trouble combined with brain fade.
Be warned controllers I shall be back to re fly the approach later today.
To all who joined us thanks for the company.
Hope to see you same time, different place next week (flight Friday & planning on Wednesday 2200z)
Glad you enjoyed it. So did I, even though I made a "small" mistake on the VOR/DME approach into catalina. Put simply I suffered a bit of finger trouble combined with brain fade.
Be warned controllers I shall be back to re fly the approach later today.
To all who joined us thanks for the company.
Hope to see you same time, different place next week (flight Friday & planning on Wednesday 2200z)