Trial Period Flights

arb65912
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Re: Trial Period Flights

Post by arb65912 »

I think that keeping the proper balance is the key. At some point after reading from many sources, I was trying to make my transmissions as short and informative as possible which is probably a good thing so I do not jam the frequency but I think that the level of "politeness" should vary depending on ATC workload.
If I know or expect that Controller is very busy ( by hearing his transmissions to others ), I will not say even " Good day Sir" but when I am in more remote area, I will many times say simple "Thank you" or " Good Day Sir".
Summarizing, I think that the balance and a proper judgement is the key. :) Cheers, AJ
wmburns
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:28 am

Re: Trial Period Flights

Post by wmburns »

I am a new PilotEdge trial user and recently performed my first flight (train wreck might be a better description). Virtually all of problems encountered could be traced back to mistakes that I made (it truly was a humbling experience). My mistakes included landing at the wrong airport and a particularly bad job of executing the ODP out of Corona (KAJO). The controller was very helpful in both situations. Thank-you PilotEdge!

I like to fly the PMDG Jetstream 4100 (turboprop) which can be a handful during landing. To deploy the speed breaks requires application of reverse thrust until 70 knots. The throttle is returned to flight idle followed by the condition lever into “taxi” position. The order is important as the JS41’s engines will catch fire if done incorrectly.

Upon touchdown a KLAS 25L (high pilot workload situation), the tower controller gave me instructions to “exit right at next high speed turn off, cross runway 25R, hold short Bravo, contact ground 121.1” (4 data items of which I got the first 2). I was not expecting to receive so many instructions which completely overloaded me. This resulted in missing the high speed turn off.

The tower controller responded with “looks like you missed the turn off” followed with a fresh set of taxi instructions.

I was prepared to receive simple runway exit instructions as this would have allowed me to focus on flying the airplane and then safely exiting the runway. Once safely clear of the runway, I would have been better able to copy the tower controller’s instructions.

I understand why the tower controller needs to issue the runway crossing instructions and not the ground controller.

Now onto my questions.
• In the real world, would this series of tower communication be typical during the landing phase (IE multiple data items in a single transmission)?
• If so, wouldn’t the co-pilot normally be responsible for radio communications while the PF focused on the airplane?
• As I would like to one day get my real world license, I want to learn how to manage the process of flying. So I’m interested in understanding the ATC/pilot flow. I’m not interested in “special” treatment.
• As a single pilot in a normally two pilot airplane, are there any “tips or tricks” to manage ATC communications during high workload situations? Or is this just an example of “aviate navigate communicate”?

In closing let me say that what PilotEdge has created is truly very different from “other” offerings. While definitely humbled I am looking forward to the unique learning opportunities offered by PilotEdge.

Thank-you .
Ryan Geckler
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:42 pm

Re: Trial Period Flights

Post by Ryan Geckler »

I'll answer the first question as its more in my wheelhouse.

It's actually a very common communication between aircraft at LAS. Take a listen to LAS Tower on liveatc.net, and you'll see it happens often.
Ryan Geckler | ERAU CTI Graduate
PilotEdge Air Traffic Control Specialist
Keith Smith
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Re: Trial Period Flights

Post by Keith Smith »

In the real world, would this series of tower communication be typical during the landing phase (IE multiple data items in a single transmission)?
• If so, wouldn’t the co-pilot normally be responsible for radio communications while the PF focused on the airplane?
• As I would like to one day get my real world license, I want to learn how to manage the process of flying. So I’m interested in understanding the ATC/pilot flow. I’m not interested in “special” treatment.
• As a single pilot in a normally two pilot airplane, are there any “tips or tricks” to manage ATC communications during high workload situations? Or is this just an example of “aviate navigate communicate”?
A lot of this comes to experience and expectations. You should expect that tower will give you exiting instructions as you slow down on the runway. Those exiting instructions will frequently contain runway crossings, hold shorts, and a frequency to contact ground.

The only "news" in that transmission is the instruction to hold short of Bravo. The instruction to cross the parallel is expected (it was going to be that, or hold short of 25R" if there were any departures. The ground frequency isn't new...that should be programmed into the stdby slot on the radio after you swap to tower from the approach. The 'exit at the next high speed' is standard, and expected.

One technique to 'remember' all these is to visualize the instructions as they're issued. Then you simply replay the visualization in your mind and readback the various steps ("exit next right, cross 25R, short of Bravo, contact ground").

To your questions, then:
- yes, those are realistic comms, as Ryan responded.
- the PNF would normally work the radios, yes...but single pilot airplanes would be given the same instructions (I've landed a JFK, DFW, & ATL with my airplane and received instructions like those).
- I don't find the workload during critical phases of flying to be much higher in the CRJ than in, say, a Baron. Sure, it takes way longer to run the checklists at the gate for startup, but once you're underway, there isn't a lot more to it. "Aviate, navigate, communicate" is over used, in my opinion. The reality is that pilots have to be good at doing all 3 at once. It's really only when you're at absolute capacity that you need to start shedding load or reducing the amount of simultaneous tasks that you're doing.

I'll give you an example. During instrument training, shortly after receiving the dreaded approach clearance, "N123AB, 5 from the marker, fly heading 330, maintain 2000 until established on the localizer, cleared ILS RWY 30 approach, contact tower at the marker 120.50," it's common for instrument students to wheel out the "aviate, navigate, communicate" clunker from the freezer.... slowly executing the turn, starting a descent, and then eventually responding to the instruction. A more seasoned pilot will start the turn and descent while the instruction is being received, or at the very least, while they're reading it back. And the read back is given immediately after the instruction. That's what you should be aiming for. All of this requires a good amount of training and practice, though, to the point where you can construct the entire approach clearance (sans the altitude, perhaps, because you don't have all the required info to know what alt might be issued on the final vector) ahead of time, before it's given.

That way, when it IS given, you're way ahead of the airplane, and the controller's instruction. In other words, you're not busy that you can't do all 3 tasks at once.

Hope this helps!
punder
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Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Trial Period Flights

Post by punder »

Just signed up with PilotEdge and haven't done a flight yet, but I'm not afraid of talking above my competence level. :) So, on the traffic level issue...

I am a low-time sport pilot, but I learned to fly at Centennial, KAPA, which is a very busy GA airport surround by other busy airports, including KDEN. And from my short 70 hours of experience, it's CRAZY difficult to spot other planes in the air. Plenty of traffic on the ground and usually a few in the pattern, but get a few miles into the boonies and it's empty skies all around. In fact, when you DO see another airplane, it's cause for an adrenaline rush, the magnitude of which is directly proportional to how big the other airplane is when you first spot it!

Even in the pattern, you sometimes have to work hard to spot the traffic you've been told to follow. My 2 cents.
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