I'm struggling with the approach to the now beloved Rancho Vallecito. I've been able to land successfully once, but in real life I doubt the plane owner or an instructor would agree. I'm sharing my process and looking for feedback.
This morning's flight in the default X-Plane 10 Cessna 172:
1. Enter the valley northwest of the airport at 4,000 and slow to 80 knots.
2. Drop two notches of flaps and make the base turn and descend to about 3,000.
3. Turn to final, go to full flaps and 60-70 knots.
4. Crest the ridge as close as I dare and start the 'dive' to the threshold.
5. Quick transition to flare and boom, I'm on the ground at likely 90 kts.
How is it possible to manage the airspeed at the descent rate needed to make the field? Should I consider almost stalling the plane at the ridge and use the steep descent as a recovery while meeting the runway at the same time? After watching Peter's 737 video (again) it almost seems like a jet would have an advantage, being able to sink to meet the descent profile and not pick up as much airspeed. He's at 92kts cresting the ridge, 108kts at touchdown with a peak of (I think) 114kts.
Finally, I don't want to turn FSEconomy posts into the "Keith's FBO Show" but this airport is so challenging that I can't seem to shake it.
46CA Approach best practices?
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46CA Approach best practices?
Steve Kirks (sKirks on Twitch)
KSGF--I-10 rated
Student Pilot
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KSGF--I-10 rated
Student Pilot
I invented the Alphabet Challenge, what's your excuse?
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Re: 46CA Approach best practices?
if you're determined to land on 10, I would keep the pattern inside the ridge in a small plane. Descending over the ridge like that is a really poor idea and I doubt anyone has done it in real life. The big planes are coming over the ridge because at the speeds necessary, the plane can't keep the base leg inside of the ridge and make the turn to the runway.
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Re: 46CA Approach best practices?
I don't know if it would work in X-Plane but in real world I would try less flaps and more slip! I will give it a go in XP and report back, fun.
edit: this video implies it is feasible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ8Pw9Fk8R8
edit: this video implies it is feasible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ8Pw9Fk8R8
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Re: 46CA Approach best practices?
The stock 172 is WAY too clean, so use caution there. It floats like crazy. With full flap and idle power, it doesn't come down at much more than 500fpm, which is not really accurate. At 172 speeds, keeping the base inside the ridge shouldn't be a problem. Between that and slip with flaps 30 (if not prohibited by the POH), it should be straight forward. Speed management is key. 60-70kts is a very big range. 1.3x VSo would be more like 55 I suspect. That should result in far less float. I actually haven't tried it in anything smaller than a Baron so far, but if I get a chance, I will.
I would avoid the stock 172 in X-Plane, though. The vFlyte Tiger would be a great airplane to try.
I would avoid the stock 172 in X-Plane, though. The vFlyte Tiger would be a great airplane to try.
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Re: 46CA Approach best practices?
You can slip in X-plane.
Note that if you can't slip the aircraft in the real world without aerodynamic consequences (dutch roll) you won't be able to in x-plane.
Note that if you can't slip the aircraft in the real world without aerodynamic consequences (dutch roll) you won't be able to in x-plane.
Re: 46CA Approach best practices?
As Peter mentions, keep it inside the ridges - I've been running the C206 in and out of there on FSE and usually make a low right pattern for 10, using the hills on the SE side abeam the 28 numbers as a reference for my pattern width, with a notch of flaps when I enter the downwind putting out the second notch before turning base. Slow flight is key here, I try to keep it around 65 knots and make a quick base turn to short final (usually only about 200~300 AGL) - if necessary I'll put out the third notch of flaps but that usually leads to me floating a bit too much.
It's not the best example but you can see my approach on Keith's stream archive here starting at the 1hr27min30s (stick around for the helicopter tennis that follows).
It's not the best example but you can see my approach on Keith's stream archive here starting at the 1hr27min30s (stick around for the helicopter tennis that follows).
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Re: 46CA Approach best practices?
Regarding the pattern, I never thought about keeping it inside the ridge and basically surfing it on the base and final. Good idea.Pieces wrote:if you're determined to land on 10, I would keep the pattern inside the ridge in a small plane. Descending over the ridge like that is a really poor idea and I doubt anyone has done it in real life. The big planes are coming over the ridge because at the speeds necessary, the plane can't keep the base leg inside of the ridge and make the turn to the runway.
Regarding the wonky landing/departing runway...well...I couldn't stand it anymore. I called Butterfield Ranch next door and left a message for them to call me back.
Steve Kirks (sKirks on Twitch)
KSGF--I-10 rated
Student Pilot
I invented the Alphabet Challenge, what's your excuse?
Alphabet Challenge
KSGF--I-10 rated
Student Pilot
I invented the Alphabet Challenge, what's your excuse?
Alphabet Challenge
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Re: 46CA Approach best practices?
The "45 approach" inside of the hill is the recommended approach for smaller aircraft. It's very very hard to pull off in a fast jet, therefore most jets use the straight in approach.Regarding the pattern, I never thought about keeping it inside the ridge and basically surfing it on the base and final. Good idea.
Regarding the wonky landing/departing runway...well...I couldn't stand it anymore. I called Butterfield Ranch next door and left a message for them to call me back.
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Re: 46CA Approach best practices?
I just got a call from a nice named Doug that runs the Butterfield Ranch, just west of 46CA and he gave me some background. Norman Kanoff is long dead and was apparently a very nasty person. After his death, the estate sold the Butterfield Ranch to the current owners and Rancho Vallecito's property is now owned by the California Department of Parks and Recreation. He is pretty familiar with flying and thought it was hilarious when I described what's going on at 46CA on PilotEdge, but I skipped Helicopter Tennis for fear of scaring him off. Doug mentioned that there's a dirt strip just north of Butterfield (across the highway) that is also closed. His quote "you'd have to be some kind of crazy to land at either place".stevekirks wrote:Regarding the wonky landing/departing runway...well...I couldn't stand it anymore. I called Butterfield Ranch next door and left a message for them to call me back.
That said, maybe we should spruce up the place with some new asphalt and wide taxiways. Norm won't mind seeing how he's gone to his great reward and the Parks department doesn't get out that way often.
Steve Kirks (sKirks on Twitch)
KSGF--I-10 rated
Student Pilot
I invented the Alphabet Challenge, what's your excuse?
Alphabet Challenge
KSGF--I-10 rated
Student Pilot
I invented the Alphabet Challenge, what's your excuse?
Alphabet Challenge
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Re: 46CA Approach best practices?
.......and which way did they used to land and takeoff?!