Advise controller when commencing descent

[Per10]

Hi everyone,

New on PilotEdge since two weeks back and very excited about this great way of getting more comfortable with the radio comms. I have a Swedish PPL and although the procedures and rules over here differ slightly from the US it's still really good training for my real world flying. Today I flew from KBUR to KSBA in the sim. A while into the flight I was handed over from Burbank Departure to Point Mugu Approach. (I actually didn't get the callsign and just reread "Socal Approach" but the controller didn't correct me which I am glad for. I most likely would not have recognized the name unless he spelt it out for me.)

Anyway, my enroute altitude was 4500 feet and before starting my descent for KSBA I called the controller to let him know that I intended to start my descent. He sounded a bit surprised - is that something you don't have to do or are normally not expected to? Or was he just busy with other traffic at the moment?

Regards,
Per

[tngarner]

My experience in the real world. In busy terminal areas Approch expects VRF Pilots with flight following to report altitude changes. Generally you will hear report altitude or corse changes or something to that effect. Once you leave the Approch areas and are handed off to center they seem far less concerned.

On PE I do mostly IFR but the few VFR flights seem to depend on the control so guess that makes it much like to real world with no real requirement but depends on who you get/ where you are.

[HRutila]

Here is what the AIM says regarding reporting a change in altitude to ATC.

5−3−3. Additional Reports

• a. The following reports should be made to ATC or FSS facilities without a specific ATC request:
  • 1. At all times.
    • (a) When vacating any previously assigned altitude or flight level for a newly assigned altitude or flight level.

You were likely not assigned an altitude in this scenario. Barring any conflicting traffic, controllers will often state "VFR altitude your discretion" or "Maintain appropriate VFR altitudes," which is not the same as an altitude assignment.

If a controller needs a pilot to report altitude changes, the most common phrases are "Advise prior to changing altitudes" and "Report changing altitudes."

[schwed]

Unless an altitude is assigned or the controller states "advice on altitude change", it is not required. However, I still will report in altitude changes. its never wrong to let the controllers know what you're doing.
If an altitude was not assigned I will just notify them of my intentions (i.e. "Philly approach, starting our VFR decent").
If an altitude was assigned, then I will request an altitude change (i.e. "Philly approach, request to start our descent")

Hope this helps,

[Peter Grey]

While not required the AIM recommends letting the controller know when you change your altitude when operating VFR.

This assumes you haven't been "assigned" an altitude, which is rather rare when operating VFR.

Note the AIM 5-3-3 reference below specifically relates to IFR flight (which isn't clear from the AIM section description but if you read the rest of that section it becomes clear that it relates to IFR).

The VFR version of this reference is 4-1-15 b 2 which states:

Pilots should also inform the controller when changing VFR cruising altitude.

Note that informing is NOT the same as asking for. You don't need to ask permission to change altitudes, just tell us you are doing it.

[Per10]

Thanks all for very informative responses! Probably the controller was just confused because I used the wrong callsign for his station (and also managed to answer the call for another aircraft right after). Now I know how to handle it next time around.

What is somewhat confusing to me in general is that there is no really good way for me to determine in advance which controllers I am likely to be handed off to. In Sweden there are just two classes of airspace: C (controlled) and G (uncontrolled) and for all operations within C you need a specific clearance - somewhat like operations in B in the US. When flying VFR it is my responsibility to know exactly when I am about to enter the controlled airspace and obtain a clearance on beforehand. Therefore the limits of this airspace is clearly visible on all charts and I know exactly at what point I will enter another approach/departure controllers airspace (again, somewhat like B airspace in the US). On my way last night from KBUR to KSBA I had no clue I was going to be handed over to "Point Mugu Approach". By just looking at the sectional it might as well had been LA Center for a while and then Santa Barbara Approach (or KSBA App right away).

I guess the US system is actually more permissive towards the pilot as you do not need a specific clearance and if you need to be in two-way radio communication it is marked as C or D airspace on the sectional. I just find it slightly harder to prepare all (likely) frequencies in advance.

I will also have a look in the AIM. Just now understood that there is actually quite a lot of information on ATC procedures to be found there.

[Keith Smith]

Do not attempt to predict all of the positions/freqs in advance, it would be very time consuming and you don't have access to the ATC sector boundaries, so the chances of you getting all of the frequencies right are minimal. There's also no real advantage to knowing the positon names/freqs in advance.

I routinely fly into airspace that I've never visited before in the real world, and it's a non-issue. If you don't catch the facility name in the hand off, you should at least be catching whether it's a center or approach facility. Then, on the check-in with the next facility, you can go with "Center" or "Approach" on the check-in and listen closely to their response (since they'll be saying their facility name on the initial response).

Over time, I've learned the names of the ARTCCs (centers) in the northeast, midwest, and southeast, so I catch those without an issue, but I do get surprised by approach names from time to time. In those cases, I just eliminate the facility name on check-in and just go with 'approach'.

[Per10]

Thanks Keith! Sounds like very good advice. I'll skip the "frequency frenzy" part of my flight planning next time around

[N2897M]

When I was training as a pilot some years ago (Mid 2000s)we were advised to report changes in altitude for VFR flights, Since being on PE the controllers advised me otherwise,

[Keith Smith]

When I was training as a pilot some years ago (Mid 2000s)we were advised to report changes in altitude for VFR flights, Since being on PE the controllers advised me otherwise,

When I report altitude changes on many XC flights, some controllers say "roger," while others say, "roger...maintain VFR." The latter is said with a tone to imply that they just don't need to hear it. You're going to get a wide variety of guidance depending on the circumstance, the airspace, traffic level, mood and what the controller had for breakfast. Practically speaking, it's one of the few gray areas that I know of. There will be times when you just can't win and it won't be a perfect interaction.