Class D airport in class E airspace

Class D airport in class E airspace

Postby mpw8679 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:50 pm

Hi guys, I am having some issues understanding a couple things. For example KCPR is a class D within class E airspace. Then both those are situated inside a class E transition. I think that is what is called anyways. So say I am heading to KCPR in my little 172 VFR.

1. Is two way communication needed to enter the class E transition? From my research no it isn’t.

2. As far as entering the class E boundry around the airport I’m assuming that I would need clearance to enter that area correct? It appears that airspace is there to make room for departures and arrivals. Quite a few CRJ’s operate there. If clearance isn’t required wouldn’t that be a big no no to have a little Cessna cruising uncontrolled in arrival and departure paths of jets?

3. Due to the shape of the class E if I was in a basic aircraft with no GPS what is the best way to approach this situation? I am trying my best to try and learn with no GPS or DME but makes it very confusing learning who to contact and at what point.

I am very new to this and looked like Casper would be a good spot to start and learn the basics. Also being in my home state I am familiar with the area. Any help and comments would be most appreciated. Thank u!
mpw8679
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:16 am

Re: Class D airport in class E airspace

Postby zerofay32 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:13 pm

You're over thinking it a bit. Class E is Class E no matter where the floor of the airspace is. On the sectional chart, it shows two areas that change where Class E airspace starts.

Normally, it starts @ 1200'agl.
The area inside the magenta shaded circle (~23NM radius from CSP) on the sectional around CSP depicts where the floor of the Class E starts at 700' agl.
The Dashed magenta lines around the airport designate where the floor of the Class E is at the surface.

So the question is, what are the requirements to enter Class E airspace? what altitude the airspace starts at doesn't matter.

Your assumption for the reason for the airspace is correct and is to provide controlled airspace for aircraft on approaches into CSP. The VFR requirements as the same as any other class E airspace though.
Andrew Fay
PilotEdge I-11
Commercial Pilot/Instrument ASEL/AMEL- KOSU / Commercial sUAS-DJI S900
PE Callsigns: C172-62266; PA28-6157J; DHC6-2612J; PA31-35834
ZLA Alphabet Challenge http://myflightroute.com/alpharesults.php?pilot=%284171%29
zerofay32
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:34 am
Location: Grove City, Ohio

Re: Class D airport in class E airspace

Postby mpw8679 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:33 pm

zerofay32 wrote:You're over thinking it a bit. Class E is Class E no matter where the floor of the airspace is. On the sectional chart, it shows two areas that change where Class E airspace starts.

Normally, it starts @ 1200'agl.
The area inside the magenta shaded circle (~23NM radius from CSP) on the sectional around CSP depicts where the floor of the Class E starts at 700' agl.
The Dashed magenta lines around the airport designate where the floor of the Class E is at the surface.

So the question is, what are the requirements to enter Class E airspace? what altitude the airspace starts at doesn't matter.

Your assumption for the reason for the airspace is correct and is to provide controlled airspace for aircraft on approaches into CSP. The VFR requirements as the same as any other class E airspace though.


Ok that makes sense. So say I am planning for a full stop again at KCPR. I am approaching the airport class D and have not made any two way communication as of yet. Would ATC have a preferred direction they would want me to approach from? Looking at the map approaching from the NW or SE would look best to me. I would prefer from the SE direction as Casper mountain and the town of Casper would help me navigate better. Or again am I overthinking this?
mpw8679
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:16 am

Re: Class D airport in class E airspace

Postby Keith Smith » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:44 pm

As far as entering the class E boundry around the airport I’m assuming that I would need clearance to enter that area correct?


No, because a clearance is not a requirement for entering Class E airspace. The fact that it's near a Class D airport doesn't change how Class E works. I suspect you're starting off with an expected result ("I feel like I need a clearance for some reason...") and are then ignoring what you know about Class E airspace :) Class E is Class E....its rules don't change based on there being an airport nearby.

Head towards the airport from any way you want...then comply with their pattern entry instruction and call it a day.
Keith Smith
 
Posts: 9615
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:38 pm
Location: Pompton Plains, NJ

Re: Class D airport in class E airspace

Postby mpw8679 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:08 pm

Keith Smith wrote:
As far as entering the class E boundry around the airport I’m assuming that I would need clearance to enter that area correct?


No, because a clearance is not a requirement for entering Class E airspace. The fact that it's near a Class D airport doesn't change how Class E works. I suspect you're starting off with an expected result ("I feel like I need a clearance for some reason...") and are then ignoring what you know about Class E airspace :) Class E is Class E....its rules don't change based on there being an airport nearby.

Head towards the airport from any way you want...then comply with their pattern entry instruction and call it a day.

Keith and Andrew thank u both. One last question and I think I will be ready for a little sim time. How does a pilot judge his position and distance when calling atc to report position? This is assuming only having very basic navigation equipment on the aircraft. I don’t see an issue if u are in familiar airspace but what if u are flying into an unfamiliar airport? Can u judge distance from the airport beacon? Can u call once u visually locate the airport?
mpw8679
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:16 am

Re: Class D airport in class E airspace

Postby zerofay32 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:52 pm

Sans GPS, all you need is a Sectional Chart and a mark 1 eyeball. Find a feature on the ground, find it on the sectional and measure how far away from the airport it is with a plotter or the scale on the sectional it self. There is no need to be super accurate but you will find that there is so much detail on sectionals that it is quite easy to be +/- a tenth of a mile.

Another way is the reverse. Plot your route on the chart and find a prominent feature that's say 15 miles from your destination. Then look for it as you are flying. Once you pass your checkpoint you know your mileage.
Andrew Fay
PilotEdge I-11
Commercial Pilot/Instrument ASEL/AMEL- KOSU / Commercial sUAS-DJI S900
PE Callsigns: C172-62266; PA28-6157J; DHC6-2612J; PA31-35834
ZLA Alphabet Challenge http://myflightroute.com/alpharesults.php?pilot=%284171%29
zerofay32
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:34 am
Location: Grove City, Ohio

Re: Class D airport in class E airspace

Postby yycflyer » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:08 am

Another way is to use a VOR and DME to know your distance. Example. On my planned course, when I am 25 nm from XYZ. VOR then I should be 12 nm from my destination. Confirm that with visual indicators and you should have a pretty accurate location.
Mike T
Home: CYYC
FSEconomy: MikeT
Just a simmer who enjoys aviation!
yycflyer
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: Class D airport in class E airspace

Postby mpw8679 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:37 pm

zerofay32 wrote:Sans GPS, all you need is a Sectional Chart and a mark 1 eyeball. Find a feature on the ground, find it on the sectional and measure how far away from the airport it is with a plotter or the scale on the sectional it self. There is no need to be super accurate but you will find that there is so much detail on sectionals that it is quite easy to be +/- a tenth of a mile.

Another way is the reverse. Plot your route on the chart and find a prominent feature that's say 15 miles from your destination. Then look for it as you are flying. Once you pass your checkpoint you know your mileage.

Thank u!
mpw8679
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:16 am

Re: Class D airport in class E airspace

Postby mpw8679 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:38 pm

yycflyer wrote:Another way is to use a VOR and DME to know your distance. Example. On my planned course, when I am 25 nm from XYZ. VOR then I should be 12 nm from my destination. Confirm that with visual indicators and you should have a pretty accurate location.

Thank u!
mpw8679
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:16 am


Return to Pilots

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest