Avoid A32NX for now.

Avoid A32NX for now.

Postby tasev1 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:16 pm

Hey guys, just sharing my experience with the A320Neo (mod) plane on PE as well as some comments on the arrival. I previously had no issue flying OFFLINE due to the fact that I have entire routes programmed in before departure. Unfortunately, as is the case with MSFS's lack of proper navigation performance and the FlyByWire team unable to completely overcome all shortcomings, the MCDU could not handle a re-route or change in approach (not something I've tried to do, nor was it expected)

I tried desperately to get some semblance of a flight plan change, but found myself flying by manual heading and altitude the whole way. Due to the change in route, I had to call LA-CTR and notify them that I was no longer RNAV capable thus prompting an approach change to VOR capable. During my time with Albequerque and handoff to LA, I wasn't given descent clearance. This left me VERY high and I had to dive down with all my spoilers and gear down for drag after requesting a descent myself (and still magically making my altitude constraint! yay!). My original approach assignment was leading to a 26L/R arrival, but with the new approach, it changed by assumption to 19R at which point I asked for the visual (19R was assigned I guess because they didn't realize I was an airline flight?) - There was a bit of a mismatch where I had to manage the aircraft manually, without knowing what runway I was expecting. Once on with KLAS tower, I had to steeply descend again to meet the visual approach requirement and asked for a sidestep to 19L.

That was a lot of unhappy passengers! :p

Good learning experience......not touching the A320 with PilotEdge again until Asobo sorts out their navigation, and personally working on managing route changes and instructions better. Sticking with XPlane's Zibo 737 for now. Shame, really....it is a beautiful bird to fly and easy to operate.

Aleksandar
Last edited by tasev1 on Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Avoid A32NX for now.

Postby Keith Smith » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:02 am

This left me VERY high and I had to dive down with all my spoilers and gear down for drag


You can say "unable" on a crossing restriction if it wasn't issued in a timely fashion. No need to perform unnatural acts.

Regarding 19L vs 19R, one of the drawbacks with a fictional VA is that the r/w gate assignments no longer give us an indication where aircraft are going to park, or whether an operator is a Part 91/135 operation vs 121. I would suggest being prepared to tell ATC which runway you want.

As you've observed, flying online is a more dynamic environment than offline. Many aircraft can perform an offline flight end to end without issue because of the static nature of the routing. It may well be the case that the devs have never actually tested amending the route in flight. It's not a great state of affairs, but it's being reported as an issue across many aircraft across all networks at this point.
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Re: Avoid A32NX for now.

Postby tasev1 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:02 pm

Thanks Kieth. Yes, with Walker Transport they fly such a wide array of aircraft I will take note to mention it on arrival next time! An A320 can still be a private flight going to Signature.

Initially with ABQ I was cleared to a new fix followed by Tysson5 arrival about an hour or so prior to the ZLA. Once on LA CTR, I advised that I could not fly RNAV and was given Kaddy3 arrival, Kingman transition crossing Kaddy at 12000. Does that then automatically clear me to descend as required? I wish I had planned my own TOD and requested as such. I had a discussion with an A320 Captain and typically he gets descend and maintain / descend pilot's discression / descend via STAR instructions - I got none of those (listened to the audio to make sure I didn't miss something). I did calculate my descent rate and determined I could make the restrictions (and I did); though I considered asking for the hold as depicted on the arrival.

And you know what? It was still an enlightening experience that's better than a boring standard flight....though I still hate looking like and idiot online!
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Re: Avoid A32NX for now.

Postby Kevin_atc » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:18 pm

tasev1 wrote:was given Kaddy3 arrival, Kingman transition crossing Kaddy at 12000. Does that then automatically clear me to descend as required?


"Was given" is very vague here. Were you cleared via this routing, or cleared to descend via this routing? Feel free to post the audio link/time stamp.
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Re: Avoid A32NX for now.

Postby tasev1 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:50 pm

Thanks for trying to help me improve Kieth.

Original reroute instruction: http://audio.pilotedge.net/2021/2/2021- ... _17510.mp3 at 20:00
Arrival modification with Los Angeles Center: http://audio.pilotedge.net/2021/2/2021- ... _17510.mp3 at 2:35
"Cleared direct Kingman, the Kaddy2 arrival, and cross Kaddy at and maintain 12000" out of the 2nd audio clip. To me, that should have meant that I would be cleared to descend as required but I remained uncertain. I was already too high at that point which prompted me a short time later to request the descent. I thought about asking for a hold to descend, but didn't act on it and chose to make it happen. This was in contrast to an arrival at KSFO I did where the controller specified "descend via Dyamd5 arrival" and the other example above 'descend pilot's discression...'.

That's why I was confused as to whether I should be descending and why I wasn't authorized to do so earlier as both arrivals would have had me cross Kaddy at 12000. Was it perhaps due to change in Center controllers and where that arrival starts? The previous controller may not have realized that I needed to start descending in her airspace?

Points to look at next few times I'm up: know my planned descent point (in this case, I only had a mental calculation of it due to the avionics trouble). If I don't receive a clearance before 10nm past it, consider requesting a descent if needed. Consider using 'unable' and treat it like reality instead of a simulator; descend in a holding pattern if I have to. Controllers get busy and they forget.
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Re: Avoid A32NX for now.

Postby Kevin_atc » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:15 am

tasev1 wrote:Thanks for trying to help me improve Kieth.

:?

tasev1 wrote:cross Kaddy at and maintain 12000

This was your descent clearance. Just read the text above- it's a crossing restriction. You need to cross KADDY at 12000. There's no "descend" phraseology needed here as the descent is implied since you cannot climb to 12000 from the flight levels.
In your defense, you never read back the crossing restriction and the controller didn't catch it so that's actually ATC's fault for not catching that. ATC got so caught up in your readbacks of the route that he never caught/corrected the fact that you didn't read back the crossing restriction. Hearback/readback is the leading cause of deviations in the NAS.

As for your SFO example, that was a profile descent. The KADDY arrival could also use "descend via" phraseology as it has a profile descent associated with it, but it's not a requirement for ATC to use the profile.

Finally- yes, if you're past your top of descent, you need to let ATC know. It doesn't mean they necessarily forgot about you- maybe there's traffic or another reason that they're keeping you up there. But a simple "Center, WAT123, request lower" is perfectly fine. And if you calculate that you will be high on the arrival or unable to meet any restrictions/instructions ever issued by ATC, you need to advise them ASAP that you are unable so they can issue an alternative instruction.

It's great that you're taking the time to come here and ask for clarification on these things, however they're very basic IFR questions. I would highly encourage you to watch some/all of the IFR workshop videos at www.pilotedge.net/workshops because if you're flying a jet in an IFR environment, you really need to be familiar with these sort of simple procedures and instructions.
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