I-11 Questions

I-11 Questions

Postby patrickperalta » Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:24 pm

Hello! I have some questions about the I-11 rating:

One of the instructions indicates:
File an altitude appropriate for your easterly flight, above the published Minimum Enroute Altitude (MEA) associated with the airway.

I requested 11000 since the MEA for V442 is 10000. However when I filed my flight plan, the clearance I was given was 9000 (which is above the 8100 MOCA). I was told "unable 11000". I assume this was for traffic? If I had requested 9000 in my flight plan, would that be appropriate even though it is below the MEA?

The ODP for Corona states:

climb in PDZ VORTAC holding pattern (Hold NE, right turns, 210° inbound) to cross PDZ
VORTAC at or above: R-141 CW R-230 4000, R-281 CW R-090 6700.

My clearance from AJO was to maintain 4000, expect 9000 in 10 minutes. Upon reaching PDZ, I stayed in the hold at 4000. Next I received a clearance to climb and maintain 6000. I climbed in the hold to 6000. I stayed in the hold since I did not have a clearance to 9000. Once I received the clearance to 9000, I asked if I could proceed on V442. At this point I was told that I did not pass the I-11 because I did not follow the ODP to get out of the hold.

Once I reached 9000 and crossed PDZ inbound on the hold, should I have joined V442? That's what I had intended on doing, but I guess I should have just done it instead of confirming with the controller? I think my question may have been confusing since my intent was not to join V442 right away, instead I was going to join it after completing my lap in the hold. In the RW I would not hesitate to confirm my actions with a controller, but I guess the standards are different for a rating? The controller was extremely busy at the time so that may have been a factor. Interaction is here at around 25:23: http://audio.pilotedge.net/2021/3/2021- ... _17510.mp3

One final question - the instructions also state:
Fly the ODP including at least one lap of the hold at PDZ (may require coordination with ATC)

I overheard someone else after me stating that he was going to fly a lap in the hold and he was also told by the controller that he would not pass the rating because the ODP does not require a hold if you're at the required altitude. This is true per the ODP, but the I-11 instructions require at least one lap. If I am above 6700 upon reaching PDZ or upon executing the parallel entry, do I need to fly a lap to pass the rating even though the ODP doesn't require it?

Thanks!
Patrick
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Re: I-11 Questions

Postby Keith Smith » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:43 pm

Hi Patrick,

I've asked Ops to look into this, we'll get back to you.
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Re: I-11 Questions

Postby Peter Grey » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:43 pm

Hello Patrick,

I requested 11000 since the MEA for V442 is 10000. However when I filed my flight plan, the clearance I was given was 9000 (which is above the 8100 MOCA). I was told "unable 11000". I assume this was for traffic? If I had requested 9000 in my flight plan, would that be appropriate even though it is below the MEA?


9000 is the MEA for GPS equipped aircraft. 11000 is the MEA for non-GPS aircraft. 11000 is usually not available in that area for traffic as you guessed. We will look into adjusting the rating text to make that more clear.

My clearance from AJO was to maintain 4000, expect 9000 in 10 minutes. Upon reaching PDZ, I stayed in the hold at 4000. Next I received a clearance to climb and maintain 6000. I climbed in the hold to 6000. I stayed in the hold since I did not have a clearance to 9000. Once I received the clearance to 9000, I asked if I could proceed on V442. At this point I was told that I did not pass the I-11 because I did not follow the ODP to get out of the hold.


You should have left the hold once reaching 6700' that was the reason for the failure, from the recording you state that you were at 9000 and still in the hold. This is explained in a bit more detail in the rating text.

I overheard someone else after me stating that he was going to fly a lap in the hold and he was also told by the controller that he would not pass the rating because the ODP does not require a hold if you're at the required altitude. This is true per the ODP, but the I-11 instructions require at least one lap. If I am above 6700 upon reaching PDZ or upon executing the parallel entry, do I need to fly a lap to pass the rating even though the ODP doesn't require it?


The rating requires a lap in the hold and we actually instruct the controllers to not assign above 6000' until that lap is complete in order to prevent this type of confusion. Can you confirm that you heard this at about the same time as your flight?

Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Peter Grey
PilotEdge Director of Quality Assurance and Operations
peter@pilotedge.net
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Re: I-11 Questions

Postby patrickperalta » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:44 pm

Hi Peter,

9000 is the MEA for GPS equipped aircraft. 11000 is the MEA for non-GPS aircraft. 11000 is usually not available in that area for traffic as you guessed. We will look into adjusting the rating text to make that more clear.

Got it, that makes sense. Yes adjusting the text would help since it assumes that aircraft will be navigating via GPS.

You should have left the hold once reaching 6700' that was the reason for the failure, from the recording you state that you were at 9000 and still in the hold. This is explained in a bit more detail in the rating text. The rating requires a lap in the hold and we actually instruct the controllers to not assign above 6000' until that lap is complete in order to prevent this type of confusion. Can you confirm that you heard this at about the same time as your flight?

Yes, I was not assigned from 6000 to 9000 until I completed a few laps in the hold. It sounds like I should have proceeded on course departing PZD after I climbed past 6700 on the way to 9000.

Thanks for taking the time to explain, really appreciate it!
-Patrick
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