Approach to KONT

[Mark Hargrove]

As a brand-new member of PE with lots of simulator time in my own little world of FSX (but no experience of flying/simming "in the system"), I'm trying to gain a practical knowledge of the airspace rules and find myself confused about a couple of things. I'm practicing for the V2 training exercise -- the short cross-country from KSNA to KONT. I generally fly a Cessna 172SP with a glass cockpit (the Flight1 G1000 simulator, not the stock G1000 that comes with FSX). If I was just doing this on my own I'd climb to 5500 on a direct GPS course from KSNA to KONT. At around 10 miles out I'd call KONT tower then start a VNAV descent down to 1900 (with an offset to get me to 1900 about two miles before ONT). Then, depending on the wind, I'd enter a right base for 8R or a left downwind for 26L and land.

My confusion, though, is about the airspace around KCNO. The route of flight to KONT takes you almost right over the Chino airport. How high must I be when I cross over KCNO? Pattern altitude for Chino looks like it should be about 1650. On the descent profile I've been using I'm probably at 2500' by the time I cross KCNO. That strikes me as too close to the pattern altitude. What is the actual rule on this, and how would you plan your flight from KSNA to KONT to "get around" KCNO?

Thanks!

-M.

[Jeff N]

I'll attempt a quick answer, though I'm a relative rookie myself.

Chino's Delta airspace goes up to 2700' MSL as seen on the TAC chart in the training video. See the "[-27]" in the example below:



You must stay above that 2700' ceiling until you're within the inner ring of KONT's charlie airspace, at which point you can continue your decent to KONT's pattern altitude (only another 700' or so).

[Alex Stjepanovic]

I'll let someone with more expertise in helping...help with the fine details about G1000 and navigating VFR, but briefly, here's the goods on the Delta transitions: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=978&p=5955

[Mark Hargrove]

OK, so let me see if I get this: I either: (a) restrict my descent to 2700 (which should be OK from an altitude rules perspective, since I'm below 3000') until I cross over KCNO and then continue my descent to pattern altitude for KONT once I'm past the Class D airspace, or (b) I call KCNO tower at some point (which I'll ask about in a second) and request a transition of their Class D airspace?

So now here is the 'ask about' -- how big is the Class D airspace around Chino? When should I make the call to request a transition, and when am I officially "past" the Class D as I continue to the north for KONT if I restrict my descent to 2700' ?

[Brandon Grchan]

Do you have copies of the LA TAC chart and a sectional?


Keep in mind that the V2 rating requires you get flight following from SOCAL approach.

[Mark Hargrove]

I don't have hard copies of the sectional and LA TAC, but I've been studying both on SkyVector. I think I've also answered my own question about the size of a Class D -- it looks like they are 5 statue miles in radius.

I'm going to fly practice cross-country a bit later today and will request flight-following. Do I make the request from ground control, or do I wait until I'm airborne?

[Keith Smith]

The dotted blue circle around CNO represents the lateral limits of the Class D airspace.

You should coordinate the request for flight following on the ground as part of the exercise, but on a real instance of this flight, you'd get the flight following by default in any case because radar service is provided within 20nm of the Class C (even outside the published outer core of the Charlie) flight following would come by default because.

The goal of the exercise, however, is to understand that it's often possible to coordinate flight following to your destination while on the ground.

Regarding the Chino airspace, it's only about 1700' agl (relative to the elevation at ONT), you can cruise just above it and still enter the downwind at ONT without much of an issue. If you do want to enter CNO Delta for some reason, you could let the approach controller (who you're speaking with already since you are receiving flight following) that you'd like to transition the CNO Delta, and furnish him with the intended altitude.

[scottcame]

You're right, the limits of Class D are 5 sm typically, though as Keith says the boundary is as depicted on the chart. Remember that all you need to enter Class D is two-way radio contact with the controlling facility...meaning, the tower controller reads back your call sign.

To be safe (per the thread Alex referenced) it is a good idea, if you're talking to TRACON, to inform them of your intentions to transition the Class D, and ask if they can negotiate the transition for you.

Notwithstanding the purpose of the V2 to get FF on the ground at SNA... If I were flying this route and didn't get a beacon code from ground, I'd just switch to 135.4 as soon as SNA SoCal cut me loose. If i really wanted to fly below the ceiling of the Chino delta...say 2500... I'd just ask for a transition all at once. Something like... SoCal, Columbia 400sc 14 SSW at 2500 with Ontario ATIS whatever, request a descent thru the Chino Class D and a full stop landing Ontario. I assume if SoCal didn't want to handle the transition they'd instruct me to contact chino.

But I'd probably avoid the extra hassle and just stay at 3000. Note that at 3000, you need to make and remain in two-way radio contact with SoCal while in the Class C. (And you need an encoding transponder.)

[Mark Hargrove]

Thanks to both Kevin and Scott for the excellent replies.

My primary concern was that I'd "clip" the upper edge of the Class D on the north as I descended out of 3000' for KONT. I've flown it now and see that it's really not a problem to get down after crossing over the Chino Class D.

When I was flying real airplanes (PPL) about hundred years ago the airspace was categorized very differently. I'm still trying to sort out the new 'Class X' stuff. I did my primary and instrument ratings out of KVNY but it was so long ago (over 30 years ago) that everything is a wonderful mixture of strangely familiar and oddly new right now.

PE is a phenomenal service!