Is partial SID allowed to file?

[Orest Skrypuch]

We all like to file accurately and sensibly, a good intellectual exercise, but keep in mind that no matter what you file you may get assigned something else -- either because you "guessed" wrong, used incorrect or ambiguous format (as per this discussion) or perhaps the traffic issues of the day dictate a different route.

To slightly extend the discussion ...

Ater you takeoff, you are free to negotiate routing with the departure controller, which is generally more productive than trying to get a reroute on the ground. Negotiating for your convenience/mission is one thing, if you encounter a situation that demands a change in routing or altitude for flight safety, such as icing or TS ahead, if you communicate your reason you will typically be given your request quickly. If not, be prepared to declare an emergency if the situation demanded it.

Also, don't be surprised in congested airspace (especially with weather) to get reroutes by ATC in the air. Once coming back from the Boston area, I got three big reroutes, the first while still in the climb.

* Orest

[Keith Smith]

Will post more when I get to the office, was unable last night. Fun discussion.

[arb65912]

Thank you, Ryan.

How about that? I file SLI V21 PDZ V442 APLES, this way I do not have to expect to fly any of the ANAHM3 DPs, I would expect vectors for SLI and then as filed V21 PDZ V442 APLES.

[Alex Stjepanovic]

Ater you takeoff, you are free to negotiate routing with the departure controller, which is generally more productive than trying to get a reroute on the ground.

I'm not gonna argue as to what each real world facility/controller prefers. However at least from the virtual perspective, even though alike in real world, the departure/enroute controller would have 'a greater picture' and thus be able to make calls on reroutes better, asking for a specific route on the ground isn't a terrible idea either(As long as it's not something ultra complex or unmanageable at the time, such as due to being asked for too early etc). Don't forget that the facilities/sectors/positions/controllers coordinate with each other, A LOT

Andrzej, to answer your earlier question about filing/flying ANAHM3.HEC and then asking for the approach from APLES -> Theoretically by doing that, you wouldn't be doing anything different from any other flight. It's proably one of the easiest methods, right next to flying something like an airway or direct to APLES after SLI. Think about it for a second, you file a route, you fly a route and then get put onto approach without necessarily flying that full route, *as cleared*(The full cleared route to some extent could be looked at as a safety measure, to ensure that you don't run into anything/anyone. Well it IS that, but it's a bunch of other things as well, not really relevant to the discussion), while other little changes that you get enroute, are what really make up the actual flight.

[arb65912]

Alex, thank you very much. There is so many different approaches here and each one has it's own reasons.

I would like to make things simple for ATC and me.

If I just file SLI V21 PDZ V442 APLES, I believe this is the proper format.

In case like that, what could I expect from the Controller?

I would not expect to be told to fly any of ANAHM3 transitions, would I?
I would expect vectors to SLI and then as filed.

I am sorry for maybe dragging this subject and annoying some guys here but I simply want to learn and fly according to the rules.

[Alex Stjepanovic]

Unless the controller specifically clears you via a route different to the one you filed, and you don't refuse it, you wouldn't fly something other than cleared via. Therefore if you file and get cleared via SLI V21 PDZ V442 APLES, then ANAHM DP effectively doesn't exist for you...much like any other procedure, out of thousands and thousands of them in the world

[arb65912]

Thank you , I understand perfectly, that is what I am going to file when practicing arc approach.

One more question... I promise it to be the last one.

What happens if I refuse different route than filled?

[Orest Skrypuch]

.... What happens if I refuse different route than filled?

Then you are in negotiations. You can also cancel IFR, and fly it VFR, if airspaces allow.


A very common scenario for me is when flying through the very busy Toronto (CYYZ) sector, westward bound. The preferred route is on the south side of the zone, right across Lake Ontario. That keeps you well clear of the arrivals on the YOUTH2 arrival, they also force you down to 6,000 for the same reason.

Now, a single engine, low, for 40nm over water, especially in winter is not a good thing. I just accept the preferred routing on the ground, it is often from somewhere in the Montreal FIR (ARTCC) coming from the Ottawa or Montreal area, that is one FIR "east". It seems they won't give you any other clearance, or if they did, it would be a long delay to get it done.

When I get closer to Toronto I put in the request to fly the shoreline "through" the departures, in fact they often will offer the reroute seeing my aircraft type.

In the end, you are the pilot, and you will take the ultimate responsibility.

* Orest

[arb65912]

Thank you, Orest. I love seeing such a variety of approaches to the subject, great learning.

[Keith Smith]

The only thing I can tell you for sure is that the flight planning application on DUAT will not accept "ANAHM3.APLES" I take that to mean that the route processing computer isn't going to like it either.

The two options (using the SID) that stand out are:
1) file ANAHM3.HEC then, once in the air, request the approach you'd like from APLES (since your cleared route will overfly APLES).
2) file AHAHM3.SLI V8 PDZ V442 APLES

The computer is going to be very happy to see AHAHM3.SLI or ANAHM3.HEC, since both of those are specifically referenced on the chart.

AJ, don't sweat it too hard...there are many ways to skin a cat in the world of IFR. You might FILE ANAHM3.SLI V8 PDZ V442 APLES and actually be assigned "fly hdg 220, vectors SLI, V8 then as filed"

Alternatively, you may file SLI V8 PDZ V442 APLES" and be assigned "Anaheim Three departure, Victor eight, then as filed."

File something reasonable, then be flexible and you'll be fine.