Real World Sport Pilot class B/C/D sign off?

[theskunk]

Hi guys,

I'm hoping to use PE for some introductory experience on these classes of airports -- I've already been fling into and out of KSMO in x-plane and got a good feel for entering/leaving the airspace, departing with and without ATC flight following, etc. Are there any other scenarios i might run into in class D that I'd want to be aware of?

As for Class B/C, would any of you happen to have any live recordings of the following:

Flights originating at Class B/C and leaving the airspace
Flights originating at Class B/C and staying local in the pattern
Flights originating at another airport and picking up departure/going direct to tower?

I *think* that the only major difference would be contacting clearance first, and then contacting approach/departure upon leaving, but again, i'm not really sure!

Thanks for any input you may have!

[Keith Smith]

There are three common scenarios when departing a towered airport under VFR, and you'll want to become comfortable with all 3:
1) no flight following
2) cold calling the approach controller for flight following once you're clear of the Delta airspace
3) coordinating flight following while still on the ground

#1 is what happens by default out of a Class D field.

#2 is probably the second most common occurrence. In that case, once clear of the airspace, you contact the local approach controller on a frequency that you've already researched prior to taking off (you can get this from the AFD and numerous other sources, including simply asking the tower controller just before you leave the airspace, I suppose).

#3 can be done by many Class D facilities, workload permitting. "Ground, N123AB, request advisories to [destination name] at [altitude], Cessna 172, slant Alpha, 4500." Don't sweat the exact format...just get the information across that they need (aircraft type, equipment suffix, destination, planned altitude). You'll then be issued a squawk code and departure frequency. After takeoff, once you're clear of the pattern and tower no longer needs you on freq, you'll be sent over to departure, who is expecting you. Check in with callsign, current altitude and altitude climbing to. No need to request f/f, say aircraft type, etc...they know you're coming.

As for live recordings, it's been my goal to build a library of representative clips for common scenarios like the ones you describe above. I don't know of any off the top of my head, but if you go through our pilot training program, you'll start off with 3 laps of the pattern and then move on to flight following between 2 Class C's.

[Keith Smith]

One of our controllers, Ryan, was kind enough to fly some of the scenarios you described this evening. He'll be posting a link to the recordings (or the approx time of the flight at least) for you tomorrow.

[theskunk]

Keith,

I did the V-01 last night, and was planning to do the V-02 tonight, but it seems that I'm having sound difficulties with FSX (going to go do it on x-Plane shortly).

Everything you've said makes perfect sense -- Initial thanks to Ryan (and anybody else that has had to say 'what the heck is a tecnam' this week as I've started flying!

Thanks, Keith, for your thorough reply. I'm starting to get used to those around here

[Ryan Geckler]

Heya:

I did a couple of those flights for you.. albeit back-to-back, but most of what you need is there. To start, here's the recording: http://www.pilotedge.net/recordings/hou ... _18011.mp3

I'm N343ER (Duke 3ER). The way that I did my flights was IFR VNY-SNA, then some pattern at SNA, ending with a southbound VFR departure. Obviously since I had been talking with John Wayne the whole time, they had an idea of who I was, but I'll try to fill in the gaps. You can hear me call for clearance for the pattern at 4:07, followed by me requesting a VFR departure to the south with no FF at 7:20.

The only thing I didn't do was depart an uncontrolled field and proceed inbound to an airport. That's simple. Look on your sectional chart for the appropriate frequency to contact (or AFD), give them a call (if you want flight following), and simply state your intentions:

"SOCAL Approach, Novemeber 12345, 30 east of Seal Beach, level 4,500, type C172, request VFR flight following, inbound to John Wayne."

Remember to give your type aircraft, altitude, and position on initial call-up.. it'll save us controllers headache

"November 12345, SOCAL Approach, squawk 0204, John Wayne altimeter 29.91."

At this point, squawk the assigned code, and we'll radar contact you. It is now your responsibility to report the airport in sight; all we are doing is providing traffic advisories. Once you report the field in sight, we'll send you over to Tower, who'll give you initial pattern entry instructions.

Don't fret too much about getting the correct order in the call-up; as long as you pass the information in a timely manner and we get all we need, I don't care how you say it.

Hopefully these examples will kind of help you out; I'll do a couple more individual flights so they are more broken up (I did as much as I could last night before I almost fell asleep on the VFR leg southbound ), and will post the links here.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask!

[theskunk]

Ryan -- First off a quick thanks for all of the information. I've not managed to try a full IFR flight yet, but I've used what you posted and done the following:

Non-towered to ksmo - announced 10nm out w/ aircraft type (was told i was being too specific on a/c type), alt, intentions, w/ weather. did two laps there, and then headed out from there to ksna. I was at that point going to head up to kont and knock out the V-02, but it was getting a bit late to try that.

I'll be able to fly tomorrow and will be doing a uncontrolled -> delta (W29 - > KESN) and we'll see how this has made me more confident in what i'm saying, allowing me to make my mistakes beforehand.

[theskunk]

Hi Guys,

I wanted to post the good news -- I've gotten my endorsement to solo into class C/D airspace. Last flight out, my confidence was waining a good bit regarding what I was saying, to the point that my instructor had to take over a few times on the responses to correct/pick up what I missed on. Admittedly there were a few confusing things where I frankly just didn't know what the appropriate phrasology would be, but those were few and far between. I flew for 1.8 today and managed to get both my C/D endorsement with ease. I simply told my instructo what I would say, who I would say it to, how the transition would work, etc... all on the ground. Once in the air, I asked him if he minded if I just 'ran the show'... he said 'go for it'... we flew from w29 in stevensville, MD to Atlantic City and then stopped at Millville on the way home.

that being said, its truly a success for me, and hopefully the chief flight instructor will be signing up their school for this program.

I also found amazing value in putting me into an area that i'm not familiar with, especially since my checkride is coming up soon, and I have a feeling he's going to ask me to divert somewhere and plan 'on the fly' while i'm in the plane.. Wonder if I could make a request that a controller randomly divert me this weekend....!

[Keith Smith]

Congrats on the sign-off, these are great stories for us to read. They also really help people see what PE is all about. I have no doubt this is going to save you money, but more importantly, get you to a point where you're completely confident in having a team-based relationship with ATC, rather than an us/them relationship. Many freshly minted private pilots really aren't 100% confident talking to ATC, it's just too expensive to get there. As you can see, this really, really helps when you use it the right way and capitalize on the training opportunity that it affords. Good for you and congrats again.

Thanks, too, for the referral to the school. If you wanna blow your instructor away, find one of the MP3 recordings of your flight, download it to your phone, then bring it into the flight school and play it to them. That should be all the demo they need. If you need help locating a recording, let me know, but you can find the exact times you flew (it's the hour that counts, really) by looking on PEaware.