Icing on Carenado Bonanza F33A for X-Plane

[arb65912]

Gentlemen, does anybody have Carenado's Bonanza F33A for X-Plane?
Today I was flying IFR , experienced icing and could not recover. Disconnected from PE before the crash..

Later on I flew offline just to practice deicing and nothing worked, I had prop deice, pitot heat on, fuel pump on and alternate air on.
There is another knob called DEFROST PULL-ON but is is not moving.

Is that the possible cause I could not continue the flight, I have tried several times with the same result, loss of airspeed and maneuverability followed by loss of altitude.

Thank you, cheers, AJ

[Steven Winslow]

I'm pretty sure the icing that brought you down was on your control surfaces. The only way I have recovered from icing in aircraft that don't have de-icing systems is by flipping the De-Ice switch on my Saitek Switch Panel, but if you don't have a Saitek Switch Panel, you can map a key or button to turn on the anti ice system (even if your aircraft doesn't have one installed) in the Joystick and Equipment>Buttons:Advanced>ice menu. I would set a key, button or switch for "anti_ice_toggle." This will turn on the entire anti-ice system and will keep you flying through the worst of icing conditions....even in your Bonanza. Turning on the pitot heat won't do anything other than keep the pitot tube free of ice so you can tell your air speed as the ice building up on your wings puts you into an unrecoverable stall and you head for the ground. Good luck. It's kept me aloft many a time flying in Alaska!

[Keith Smith]

AJ,

Hopefully this has illustrated how terrifying and deadly ice can be for most General Aviation aircraft. Unless the aircraft is FIKI-certified (Flight into Known Icing), you should avoid entering conditions under which there is a reasonable expectation that ice would adhere to the aircraft. If you encounter that situation, you should have exit strategies already worked out (fly lower, fly higher, etc).

I once spent close to 1hr 30mins planning a real world flight because of the potential for icing.

X-Plane is BRUTAL with it's icing model. If you enter IMC and it's below freezing, you're going to start picking up ice (try outputting the icing state to the screen like you do with frame rates). This isn't necessarily what will happen in the real world, but it does illustrate a point.

prop deice, pitot heat on, fuel pump on and alternate air on

Unfortunately, none of those are going to stop your wings and horizontal stabilzer from turning into useless blocks of ice. Prop de-ice is nice because it will allow your prop to retain its efficiency, but even with full power, you can't fly without wings and a tail.

[arb65912]

gentlemen, I need to explain few things so I do not look like a complete dummy.
I posted my question in a hurry and did not think too much about what I said.

1. I know that pitot heat will only prevent my pitot tube from icing and I will be able to tell the aircraft IAS.

2. Alternate air will keep the air flowing to in case the air intake gets ice and should keep the engine running.

3. Deicing prop will deice the prop only

4. Fuel pump... will pump fuel constantly regardless of aircraft unusual attitude but that is it.

I thought that maybe there is some other means of defrosting F33A and I said that :"There is another knob called DEFROST PULL-ON but is is not moving."

Having explained that:

Steve, thank you very much for the hint about X-Plane settings.
I do not have the Saitek Switch panel, only Radio Stack ( which I love BTW) but I assigned the key for icing.

Keith, yes, you are right, was it in real life ....the outcome would be obvious.

It was a really a confirmation of how good X-plane is about icing ( brutal as you put it).
I am not sure, I would have to do some research but I think F33A is not FIKI certified.
On the other hand, PE is a great place to learn flying including IMC and because of that I will use the deice switch I talked above.

Actually I will probably do two things, if I want to be in a IMC conditions and just get to destination, I will use the switch, when I will want to plan exactly like in real life , I will plan my route avoiding icing but it will come later after I do some study on the weather that Orest suggested.

I am going to do some test now , offline , I outputed the icing parameters on the screen as well as the icing swich status and I will test everything, hope wather will stay bad.

Thank you again for the input, Gentlemen.

[Keith Smith]

There are two options, disable the effect with the magic button (ie, enable de-ice even though the plane doesn't have it), or take the steps that you'd need to execute on a real flight. I'm not going to encourage one vs the other...it really comes down to what your goal is on that particular flight. If the goal is to practice basic instrument flying in IMC without the freezing issue, then the anti-ice/de-ice makes perfect sense. If the goal is to practice the decision making and planning associated with a real world flight that has potential icing, then it makes sense to use the plane as is and take the appropriate steps when you run into the conditions.

If you do the former, AND you are also undergoing r/w flight training, there is nothing wrong with using the magic button, as long as you are 100% aware that the plane that you're likely to be flying once you get your private/instrument ticket is not likely to have de-ice or anti-ice capabilities.

In case it helps...while it may initially seem like the only solution is the magic button, there are often steps you can take (exiting the icing conditions) that will still allow you to complete the flight without too much inconvenience. My concern about using the button is that you'll be deprived of finding that out, if that makes sense.

[arb65912]

Keith, thank you for the input. Your options pretty much cover what I was trying to say but maybe I did not explain it properly ( Polish English )

I will try to fly:

1. VFR only and with all just like in real life with careful flight planning excluding IMC or icing posibility.( no magic button)

2. Basic instrument flying in IMC without icing ( magic button will be in use)

I am too tired to fly now but I just wanted to share with you that I did some experiments and like you said , Keith, when I got into the below freezing and clouds, ice started accumulated and withing couple minutes I had to use the magic defrost all button.
I am nicely surprised that LR did such a good job with the flight model, I am sure there is many things average flyer does not pay attention to that are also modeled.

The only bad thing with using the magic button will be the fact that I will get used to it and in real life it will not be there..... really hard to commit to not using it.

Thank you again for the input and help. Cheers, AJ

[Orest Skrypuch]

Personally, I would also suggest that you not use the "magic" button, no magic button up there.

As Keith notes, icing is an extreme threat that needs to be anticipated and avoided, or if encountered then rapidly egressed from. In a simulation setting, that is good training. If you fly enough, you will get caught sometime, especially in areas like the US Pac NW, and the US/Canadian Great Lakes area.

Where FIKI (flight into known icing) certification is available in small GA aircraft, it is more something to increase your odds of escaping alive, not something to use to charge into known icing. Even airliners, that can power through many icing threats, cannot fly through severe levels of icing accretion, such as you can see in low level freezing rain, or SLD icing threats in thick SC clouds.

On the other hand, if you want to fly without the icing threat (just to fly a regular flight that night), if there is likely to be icing with the real weather, then just clear the weather.

* Orest

[Steven Winslow]

I should have thought through my initial response. I agree completely with Orest and Keith. The "magic button" should only be used as a last resort. I've experienced icing situations where I've taken action to get out of the icing situation and then there have been times I've taken advantage of the "magic button." X-Plane really is a great tool, as is PilotEdge, and in the interest of "keeping it real," any cheats should be used sparingly. Thank you guys for this lesson. No more magic button on PE for me! If my plane doesn't have de-icing equipment, then I'm staying clear of those conditions. Here's to keeping it real!

[arb65912]

Thank you for more input, Gentlemen.... now you got me thinking again.
Maybe I will use the magic button but really in the "emergency".
On the other hand, I should do my flight planning so the emergency does arises.... hmmmm.
Well, thank you anyway.

[BeechV35Pilot]

There is another knob called DEFROST PULL-ON but is is not moving.

Apologies if someone else answered this part and I missed it, but in case not: The defrost knob in a Bonanza is just like that of the front windshield defrost feature in your car - pulling this knob simply opens the heated air ducts located atop your interior glareshield so that warm air blows directly onto the insides of your windshield. This action will do a *fair-to-poor* job melting any ice that may have accumulated on the lower outside windshield and it will clear up any moisture that may have built up on the inside of the windshield.

As X-Plane and FSX do not model the build-up of ice on the windshield, there is no reason to have this knob functional other than perhaps to be a checklist item.

Note that in any icing event but the most light icing this defrost feature is not powerful enough to remove the ice from your windshield. This is why aircraft that are certified for flight into known icing will have additional anti-ice devices on the windshield, whether it be a small heating pad or a bar that sprays anti-icing solution onto the windshield.

When ice builds on your windshield you can be certain that the critical areas of your aircraft, which are the leading edges of the wings, stabilizers, and props, are already covered and beginning to suffer the ill effects of the accumulated ice.