VFR Cruising Altitudes

[Mark Hargrove]

On a short VFR hop from SNA to ONT tonight I got a surprise from the controller. I was flying typical departure vectors to the NW, restricted to at or below 2400'. At roughly the point I left the KSNA Charlie core I was given "turn right on course, maintain appropriate VFR altitudes at all times". After acknowledging, I advised the SoCal I was going to climb to 3000'. The controller immediately told me I needed to make that 3500'. That surprised me, but I acknowledged. Controller then tells me that for VFR flight at 3000 MSL or above needed to be offset by 500' (kind of weird phrasing, but I knew what he meant). Except, unless I just completely don't understand FAR 91.159, I think he was wrong:

Sec. 91.159

VFR cruising altitude or flight level.

Except while holding in a holding pattern of 2 minutes or less, or while turning, each person operating an aircraft under VFR in level cruising flight more than 3,000 feet above the surface shall maintain the appropriate altitude or flight level prescribed below, unless otherwise authorized by ATC: (emphasis mine).
(a) When operating below 18,000 feet MSL and--
(1) On a magnetic course of zero degrees through 179 degrees, any odd thousand foot MSL altitude +500 feet (such as 3,500, 5,500, or 7,500); or
(2) On a magnetic course of 180 degrees through 359 degrees, any even thousand foot MSL altitude +500 feet (such as 4,500, 6,500, or 8,500).
[(b) When operating above 18,000 feet MSL, maintain the altitude or flight level assigned by ATC.]

I was definitely not operating above 3000' AGL (unless I don't understand what "above the surface" means), and even if the rule is MSL, 3000' MSL, my intended altitude, was not above 3000' (it was right at 3000').

After pondering this for a moment, I suggested I'd climb to 2700' to clear the Chino Delta airspace. He told me that I needed to be above 2700 to clear the delta. The sectional clearly shows [-27] as the top of the delta airspace, which (again, unless I just don't understand) means "up to but not including" -- so I think I should have been OK at 2700'.

Am I misunderstanding/misinterpreting the rules?

-M.

[Orest Skrypuch]

Mark,

You are correct, VFR rules of direction do not apply below 3000 AGL, so it keys on what the ground level was. I always fly an "odd" altitude, when on a short VFR hop, like 2900 or 3200 to avoid other traffic.

For IFR, the 3000 AGL exemption does not apply, at least in Canada, probably not in the US either.

* Orest

[Keith Smith]

Sounds like controller error in this case. I will make sure everyone is on the same page about that on our end.

When did this flight take place?

[Mark Hargrove]

The flight was Friday night, 4/27. The recording is the 20:00 ZLA, with the radio exchanges beginning at about 00:20. I'm Cessna 757SL.

-M.

[Keith Smith]

Mark,

The controller came forward. For this reason his life was spared, and instead, we only took the life of his family pet, a medium sized budgie named Denise.

You are not likely to encounter any issues flying at 3000' AGL VFR when he is on duty in the future. On another positive note, you're similarly unlikely to run into Denise, either.

Keith

[Vincent Meier]

Once again I learnt something new!!

[Mark Hargrove]

I think I ran into one of Denise's relatives on departure the other day. Took quite a while to clean the windscreen.

[Mike Sweeney]

Apart from the academic question regarding the limit of class D airspace, in practical terms, isn't adding a few hundred feet as a margin above the airspace ceiling typical to remain clear: imprecise altimeter setting, descent for traffic, birds, balloon, cloud, etc.

[Keith Smith]

Practically speaking, yes, most people do add a buffer on a real world flight.