Another Approach / Tower question

[bruce]

Flying IFR to HND with Flight Following, (thoroughly enjoyed the Birthday Bash & all the traffic) with Vegas App, HND not in sight but 10nm inbound. I requested change to HND tower because of my closing rapidly with HND.
1. Should I have waited for Vegas App to hand me over?
2. Called V. App with my position? or
3. Requested freq change, as I did?

Also I'm assuming that HND is class D (tower only)

If a field had both Tower & Approach would that make it minimally a Class C?

Thanks.

[Griphos]

All are fine I believe. As I was about 8 miles out, I let Vegas Approach know I had HND in sight. That triggered his instruction to switch to HND tower. I was carefully staying under the bravo shelf, which wasn't easy with terrain there, so I wasn't getting direct control from Approach at the time.

Delta airspace usually has a 5 mile radius, so you can contact as late as that. If you are in contact with Approach, you are cleared to enter Delta I believe, even without contact with tower.

I'll let Keith or someone answer the last one and correct anything if I'm not right.

[Colin Payette]

If you're on flight following with approach it doesn't imply clearance into class delta airspace. It sometimes brings up a dilema when I return from the north to KSEE. Do I cancel flight following and contact KRNM tower to transition, or do I stay with approach and skirt around the delta?

I'm not familiar with contacting approach to land at any class D airports, unless you were already in contact with them the whole flight. I just get 8-10 miles outside of the airspace and call the tower.

[Griphos]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that flight following coordinates transition of all airspace except Class B, which requires a specific clearance to enter. Flight following can't and won't issue landing clearance, of course, but you don't have to leave the flight following frequency and contact tower to enter Class D or Class C airspace.

Here's a relevant section from BruceAir ATC guide:

Transiting Airspace
When you are receiving flight following, ATC coordinates with other facilities as you fly through different types of airspace. It is the controller’s responsibility to coordinate your passage through all airspace (except Class B) as you cruise along. For example, unless specifically told to contact a tower, you don’t need to switch to a tower frequency to transit Class D airspace.
Suppose you are cruising at 2500 ft. between the McMinnville, OR (KMMV) and Scappose, OR (KSPB) airports. At that altitude, the direct route (shown below) takes you through the Class D airspace at Hillsboro, OR (KHIO).
If you are receiving flight following from Portland Approach, however, you don’t need to contact the tower at KHIO; the approach controller will coordinate your flight through that airspace.

Here's the relevant reg: 91.130 (c) (1)

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/te ... .10.2.4.17

Here's a relevant bit from Ask an ATC:

Q: If transitioning through Class D airspace while receiving flight following services from Center, am I cleared to enter the Class D airspace, or must I communicate with tower prior to entering?
A: If talking to Approach Control or Center, you are not expected to obtain your own authorization through each area (Class D airspace) when in contact with a radar facility. The Approach or Center controller is required to coordinate with the appropriate control tower if the clearance you are issued takes you through Class D airspace. This coordination may be specified in a letter of agreement between the two facilities, or you may be switched to the tower frequency to transit their airspace.

[jtek]

At the very minimum, you should call up approach control and let them now you plan to transit a delta. Don't just blunder into it and assume the approach controller has done the coordination, because the fact is, the controller might not be paying as close attention to your flight path as you think he is when you're VFR. If you enter a delta without talking to the tower first, and approach control didn't coordinate for you, that is going to be a violation on your part of 91.129(c).

Of course, if you're IFR, follow your clearance and you'll be fine. That's one of the advantages of flying IFR: no need to worry about airspace. Just follow your clearance.

[Griphos]

91.129 (c) is just the class D version of the reg I cited. Approach control is the appropriate ATC so you contacted ATC before entering the airspace. You just need to maintain contact through the airspace. If you enter Class D or C while VFR and while receiving flight following, you have established ATC contact and aren't blundering anywhere, and are not in violation, from everything I can find on it.

The OP asked what he could do in a specific situation. All of his options confirm to the regulations as far as I can tell. So whichever he is most comfortable with as PIC is the one for him to do.

[jtek]

I think the confusion here is that 91.129(c)(1) specifies that, "each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility...providing air traffic services" (emphasis mine). The Henderson delta is served by Henderson tower. Thus, that is the facility you must talk to before entering that airspace. Being on flight following with a nearby approach control (in this case, Las Vegas approach) does not satisfy this requirement.

In regards to the OP, I think he did exactly the right thing. In general the rule with ATC is, if you're not sure, ASK! Which is what he did. Option #1 (waiting for a handoff) would have been a bad idea.

[bruce]

Thanks for the feedback & the confirmation that I did the right thing

[Keith Smith]

Also from Chap 9 of the Instrument Flying Handbook (I just happened to be reading this the other night):

Although Class D airspace normally extends 2,500 feet above field elevation, towers frequently release the top 500 feet to
the radar controllers to facilitate overflights. Accordingly, when a flight is vectored over an airport at an altitude that appears to enter the tower controller’s airspace, there is no need to contact the tower controller—all coordination is handled by ATC."

Although that was quoted in an IFR context, it applies equally well to VFR flights. Every single time I've had flight following and have asked the controller if I can transition a Delta, I've been told that it's already been coordinated. Bear in mind, ATC is REQUIRED to coordinate these transitions on your behalf if you are receive advisories from them. Even though traffic advisories are given on a workload-permitting basis, they must coordinate the transitions for you. This is why, among other reasons, you'll frequently hear ATC say, "advise prior to any altitude changes" if you're at, say, 4500 or 5500ft, above all the surrounding Deltas. That way, unless they hear from you about you wanting to descend, they know that they won't have to coordinate anything for you in terms of Delta transitions.

As suggested, it's not a bad idea to communicate your intentions, though (through, or around, or if it's going to be pretty close, vertically, then above).

Regarding what to do if you're not handed off and you want to leave the frequency, it's very simple...say, "cancel flight following." I frequently do this when arriving at a non-towered field, even if I don't have the field in sight. I have flight following for assistance with traffic avoidance, not with finding the field. So, there's no requirement that you spot the field before being handed off to the tower or the CTAF. Unless I'm IFR in IMC, I make it a point to be on the CTAF within 10nm of the arrival field so I can get a feel for what's happening at the airport.

[Colin Payette]

This is interesting. Every single time I've been with approach on a path that'd take me through KRNM I'm explicitly advised to remain clear of the delta by the controller. Maybe it's something specific with that airport.