[January 31st 08:00pm PST] Westcoast fly-in: KOXR to KWHP

Planning a flight, looking for others to come along?
Victoria W.
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:53 pm

Re: [January 31st 08:00pm PST] Westcoast fly-in: KOXR to KWH

Post by Victoria W. »

practice direct vectoring
What is that? :)
Gentlemen,
I did not word this correctly and apparently, I was a little too tired. I get the feeling I have a few more stumbles before I have captured all the nomenclature. I want to practice direct vectors to an ILS approach so that I can gain better precision using the fundamentals I learned in the I-1, and hopefully keep progressing! This is EXTREMELY new territory for me, although I have been able to nail an ILS approach with no difficulty. But, since KWHP has no ILS approach, I will certainly be flying VFR. To quote my dad, 'you can't make any omlets unless you break a few eggs,' right? I'm glad you are all enthused! ;) I think I will keep ATC happy, since it bodes ill for me if I don't! And, I will be choosing my words more carefully next time!

~Victoria
Last edited by Victoria W. on Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
djrisc
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: [January 31st 08:00pm PST] Westcoast fly-in: KOXR to KWH

Post by djrisc »

Victoria,
Ultimately we're all here to learn (okay, and have a lot of fun.). So making mistakes comes with the learning process. I don't even want to think about how many mistakes I've made on PE since getting started.

Actually every time I complete a flight, I sit down with a notepad and write out the things that I've done wrong, just so it keeps them fresh in my mind for next time. (and every flight I end up writing down 2-3 things.)

What I struggle with recently is recalling the "entire" IFR instruction from ATC when there is a lot of information being passed along. So for example when ATC instructs to "turn right to heading 150 at some intersection, then descend to 2000." I'll pick up on the 150, the 4000, and miss the intersection instruction.

Ultimately, I think I need to make my notepad more conveniently placed so I can write at anytime when getting an ATC instruction.

But anyhow, the more we fly, the better we'll get. Like learning any new skill, just takes time and patience.

Brett
Brett Johnson
Los Angeles, CA.
PE: Skyhawk C172 - N8979T
Victoria W.
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:53 pm

Re: [January 31st 08:00pm PST] Westcoast fly-in: KOXR to KWH

Post by Victoria W. »

Brett,
Thank you for the encouragement! Come to think of it, I have had some redundant mistakes and your method seems to be a tried and true approach. I will have to implement it in my own learning. I'm especially glad we have the opportunity to share our blunders so that others can benefit from our mistakes. Looking forward to learning more tonight!

~Victoria
arb65912
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Re: [January 31st 08:00pm PST] Westcoast fly-in: KOXR to KWH

Post by arb65912 »

More fun when turning off all moving maps as well. I have shut off the GPS updates to ForeFlight so I can't look even if I want to and just rely on my instruments. Instrument flying is oddly addictive. (at least to me.)
Brett, you did it !!! You made me turn my moving map off. :shock: It was quite new experience to me but I flew KSNA-KONT VFR totally by VOR receiver and VFR landmarks. :D

I am afraid it might become addictive to me too.

Cheers, AJ
Cyrus
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:33 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: [January 31st 08:00pm PST] Westcoast fly-in: KOXR to KWH

Post by Cyrus »

As far as learning goes, we're all in the same boat. Personally, I find it really useful to listen back to the PE recordings for my flights the following day. I've picked up so many additional learnings from hearing my own interactions in full, not to mention hearing the communications that others made as well. Especially on these fly-outs, when we're not all on the same frequency at every moment.
-Cyrus Kapadia. A few RW hours in a C172, then a 15 year hiatus. Joined PE in Dec'12, then took a break. Now I'm back, learning fast and loving it. If I'm on, it's usually between 22h and midnight EST with Baron 258E, Skyhawk 176CM or Learjet 66L.
Keith Smith
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Re: [January 31st 08:00pm PST] Westcoast fly-in: KOXR to KWH

Post by Keith Smith »

The ATC recordings have been spotty lately, I apologize. The times were off by an hour when the timezone mysteriously changed in the middle of January, and the recordings have stopped working during some of the snow storms, but for the most part, there's lots of good stuff to listen to.

If I can offer a suggestion...
"turn right to heading 150 at some intersection, then descend to 2000." I'll pick up on the 150, the 4000, and miss the intersection instruction.
I'm going to correct you, not to be critical, but because it will help frame the discussion and the solution that follows. That instruction will be "depart [fix] heading 150, then descend and maintain [altitude]"

I've never used a notepad on an IFR flight other than to copy the initial IFR clearance simply because a little visualization goes a long way (whereas a full route IFR clearance often contains far too many items to memorize). For enroute/terminal operations, it's rare to receive anything that would require being written down. That's important, believe me, because writing in turbulent conditions can be a real handful and an unnecessary source of workload.

SOME of this can be solved by visualization...when you hear "depart fix hdg 150", immediately look at your heading indicator...where you heading now? Where's the new heading relatively to that? Treat it like a position on a clock. If you're on a 180 hdg, then 150 would be 30 degs to the left, which would put it at the 11 o'clock position. Memorize that spot, visually. If you were to look away and come back to the gauge, you'll remember that 11 o'clock offset and hopefully the 150 heading will come back to you. If you have a heading bug...even better.

Same with the descent...compare it to your altitude now...is this a big drop or a little drop? Visualize the new position on the altimeter and lock that in. That way, when you go to recall it, you'll have those memory aids. "the heading was over *there*" (11 o'clock). "Ah yes, 150, I remember now." Hopefully the same will happen with the altimeter.

The other thing is practice....practice...practice. It truly does get easier, and then just downright fun. Every now and then you'll have to double check, and that's fine. Just ask ATC.

Victoria, if I'm understanding right (and I promise you, I'm not being stubborn or trying to prove a point), you want to practice receiving vectors to the final approach course for an ILS approach? All ILS's are pretty much created equal (the same is not true of other types of approaches). I'd say just keep doing the one at SNA. Every airport is going to be a variation on the same theme.

You'll soon realize why we were so stumped by the 'term 'direct vectors' for an approach. The confusion is because 'vectors' implies vectors to the final approach course, whereas 'direct' normally implies that you want direct to a fix from which you can commence the full approach (the I-6).
djrisc
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: [January 31st 08:00pm PST] Westcoast fly-in: KOXR to KWH

Post by djrisc »

Thanks for the awesome tips Keith! I am going to practice that!

Brett
Brett Johnson
Los Angeles, CA.
PE: Skyhawk C172 - N8979T
djrisc
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: [January 31st 08:00pm PST] Westcoast fly-in: KOXR to KWH

Post by djrisc »

Don't forget everyone! The KOXR to KWHP fly-in is tomorrow night at 8:00pm PST!

Feel free to fly it anyway you'd like, and I hope to see a bunch of people there like last week!

Happy flying!! :)

Brett
Brett Johnson
Los Angeles, CA.
PE: Skyhawk C172 - N8979T
Cyrus
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:33 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: [January 31st 08:00pm PST] Westcoast fly-in: KOXR to KWH

Post by Cyrus »

So my PC didn't appreciate like the East Coast storm last night (and I was too lazy to get out of bed and unplug it when things got bad... even thought the thought crossed my mind <Facepalm>). I couldn't get it to boot up this morning, but I'll play some more with it when I get home tonight. On the bright side, at least kids won't be hosing it up with Minecraft today :o

Anyway, so I'm not overly optimistic about being able to join tonight's fly-in :cry: . But if I do get it going again, what sort of IFR route are you looking at for KOXR to KWHP?
-Cyrus Kapadia. A few RW hours in a C172, then a 15 year hiatus. Joined PE in Dec'12, then took a break. Now I'm back, learning fast and loving it. If I'm on, it's usually between 22h and midnight EST with Baron 258E, Skyhawk 176CM or Learjet 66L.
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