Ok what am I missing?

WagnerTenor · Post by **WagnerTenor** » Tue May 17, 2016 9:05 am

OK now the frustration level is at explode point. So, here is what happened. I want to learn and not get this wrong again, because it seems that I followed instructions, from my perspective. I think I misunderstood the read back. I was flying from KWHP to KBFL. I took off on runway 30 and flew runway heading. Got passed to the departure controller, and I was expecting a "direct" or "resume own navigation". Well I did not get it, so since the controller was very busy, I continue on heading 330 waiting, thinking "must be traffic in the area". Get passed to LAX centre, eventually get questioned as to why I was so far off course. He said I filed /G, correct, but from my perspective, I was not told to do something. I had looked at the paperwork, and I could not find any departure instruction in any FAA docs for KWHP.

1. What am I missing in the read back, that would have told me to fly my plan?
2. I think because I was not given a departure heading in the read back , this was the clue I missed to proceed on course. Is this correct?

Thanks everyone!

Graham

Keith Smith · Post by **Keith Smith** » Tue May 17, 2016 9:31 am

What was your IFR clearance when you were on the ground at WHP? Were you told at any point to fly runway heading?

WagnerTenor · Post by **WagnerTenor** » Tue May 17, 2016 9:35 am

Now, I think about it no, I was not. I think that was my mistake. Makes sense to me that if no explicit heading then I fly my flight plan. Is this correct? If so, great, problem solved.

Keith Smith · Post by **Keith Smith** » Tue May 17, 2016 9:40 am

Check out this workshop: http://www.pilotedge.net/workshops/ifr- ... emystified

Check out the first 3 lines of the description:

“Cessna 123AB, is there a truly spectacular reason why you’re still flying runway heading?”
“Umm…..”

It’s a sinking feeling when you realize your plan of action bears no resemblance to what ATC was expecting you to do, isn’t it?

My guess is your clearance was "cleared to BFL, runway 30 departure procedure, then as filed" (if VNY was part of your field route), or, "...runway 30 departure procedure, vectors [first fix], then as filed."
Do either of those ring a bell? If not, then it's back to my original question in my first response, what was your IFR clearance when you were on the ground at WHP?

If my guess was correct, then you'd need to fly the Obstacle Departure Procedure for runway 30 at WHP which can be found in page 8 of the Takeoff Minimums document (http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1605/SW3TO.PDF):

DEPARTURE PROCEDURE: ... Rwy 30, climbing left turn heading 260°. All aircraft climb to 4500 via VNY R-325, then climbing left turn direct VNY VOR/DME.

WagnerTenor · Post by **WagnerTenor** » Tue May 17, 2016 9:45 am

[/quote]My guess is your clearance was "cleared to BFL, runway 30 departure procedure, then as filed" (if VNY was part of your field route), or, "...runway 30 departure procedure, vectors [first fix], then as filed."

Do either of those ring a bell? If not, then it's back to my original question in my first response, what was your IFR clearance when you were on the ground at WHP?[/quote]

Yep, that rings a bell. I will watch the workshop and hopefully, that will solve it.

Thanks

Keith Smith · Post by **Keith Smith** » Tue May 17, 2016 9:46 am

As an aside, I'm sorry you got so frustrated by this flight. If you haven't gone through them already, the I-11 rating introduces obstacle departure procedures. This is why I recommend that unless you're instrument rated, it's best to go through the IFR ratings before rolling your own IFR flights. Otherwise, you're likely to run into little things like this where you're not aware of the correct procedure and it leads to frustration on your end.

Keith Smith · Post by **Keith Smith** » Tue May 17, 2016 9:51 am

Just saw your reply. Very good.

The only other guidance I can offer for the future is that if there is ANYTHING in the IFR clearance that isn't crystal clear to you, you should question it before your planes moves an inch on the ramp. The fact that the clearance contain "runway 30 departure procedure" and you weren't aware of what that was should've generated a question in your mind. "Ground, what is the runway 30 departure procedure?"

We get instrument rated pilots who don't know what ODP's are (simply because their instructors never told them, and they never flew at airports where there were used, and their study material was incomplete on the range of departure options), so trust me, you wouldn't be the first person to say, "what is the runway 30 departure procedure?"

As you can see from what happened on your flight, it's better to resolve ambiguity on the ground than it is in the air. I'm glad we were able to get to the bottom of this one after the fact at least

Shawn Goldsworthy · Post by **Shawn Goldsworthy** » Tue May 17, 2016 9:51 am

...... Disregard......... Typed long post, pretty much along the same lines as what Keith said, only he types faster......

WagnerTenor · Post by **WagnerTenor** » Tue May 17, 2016 9:52 am

I am on I10 now. The frustration is only with me; at my own problems. Really having to pay attention to every small detail. That being said, this really is great fun learning, and far more satisfying than VATSIM. I am determined to get it right.

Keith Smith · Post by **Keith Smith** » Tue May 17, 2016 10:09 am

Graham, understood. In addition to the ratings, I'd strongly encourage you to go through the workshops (not just the one I linked). They were designed to cover the stuff that you need to know to fly in the system.

I'm glad that you're determined to get it right, keep at it and enjoy the process!

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