Ziggy5 to KEMT

[sgreen9112]

I was flying KDLO to KEMT with the route EHF ZIGGY5 at 11,000 feet. About 20 miles outside of MAJEK the controller asked me to verify my desitnation airport of El Monte which I responded in affirmative.
He then told me the ZIGGY5 was not an arrival to KEMT as it only serviced KONT which is true it does service Ontairo but also many other airports in the area.

From the arrival sheet 2:

ALL OTHER AIRPORTS
From over ZIGGY INT via PDZ R-030 to PDZ VORTAC; expect RADAR vectors to final approach course.

I'm thinking this is incorrect as it seems the purpose of the ZIGGY5 coming from the NE is too guide you easterly around the San Gabriel Mountains bringing you down to PDZ VOR which is the IAF for the VOR-A into El Monte. Instead I was told to go direct El Monte from just past PMD which then crossed me over KEMT at 7000 feet. I checked flightaware for KEMT and found one flight IFR that did use the ZIGGY5 arrival.

Am I wrong here?

Sean

[Peter Grey]

Hello,

You are correct, the ZIGGY is a legal arrival into KEMT as it's listed on the chart. Also as you found it is used in the real world as well.

Can you let me know what time this happened so I can follow up with the controller involved?

Thanks.

[sgreen9112]

Hi Peter,

http://peaware.pilotedge.net/flight.cfm?id=166494

Here is the PEaware log of the flight with the times and date.


Thanks,
Sean

[Marcus Becker]

I'm sure Peter is handling this, however, I would like to ask a quick question. What type of aircraft where you flying? The reason I ask is that I can't find a single instance of any piston driven aircraft using the ZIGGY STAR into any ONT area airport.

Maybe you heard the controller incorrectly in that he stated the ZIGGY is unavailable for your aircraft type (instead of your destination)? Just a thought.

[sgreen9112]

HI Marcus,

I was flying a C172. I'm not posiitve if the controller stated the aircraft was unavailiable for the Ziggy; I would need to go back to the recording on the night of the flight. Nothing on the charts seem to limit aircraft type.
If conditions were truly IFR over the airport at the time of arrival an approach procedure would need to be flown since no visual of the airport could be made at 6-7 thousand feet coming over the mountains; and all approach procedures into KEMT originate at PDZ which is at the the endpoint of the ZIGGY arrival. In hindsight I would imagine they would not want a C172 puttering along at 110 tas on a major arrival that runs into KONT.

Looking at other routes flown on PE from KDLO to KEMT most single engine pistons flew to Lake Huges then into the El Monte area. This probably would have been a better route to take as it avoids the high peaks. I will need to start looking more at the type of aircraft flying a specific routing.

Sean

[Marcus Becker]

Sure Sean, the chart doesn't indicate a restriction for class at all. However, keep in mind that it doesn't necessarily mean that a restriction won't be there. Don't worry about it though. You don't always need to know the restriction as ATC will fix it for you. You just need to be able to comply with the amendment.

Another perfect example of this type of restriction is the KEPEC or CLARR arrivals into KLAS. There is no published restriction for aircraft type for these two arrivals. There is absolutely 100% chance that if an piston or turboprop aircraft files these procedures, they will be put on a different route. The ZIGGY must be one of these as well for non-jet aircraft.

By the way, I used FlightAware and looked at all of the airports that use the ZIGGY arrival to see if any piston aircraft were assigned the procedure. I couldn't find any.

Be careful of your verbiage when talking about IFR. The ZIGGY is not an approach, it is an arrival procedure. You don't need an arrival procedure to land at an airport in IMC. There are a number of ways you can get yourself to PDZ to establish yourself on an instrument approach.