PilotEdge Forums

Once I heard that KSLC was being covered, my interest was peaked. I live and fly in No. Utah and my question concerns ATC coverage of some of the Delta fields close to KSLC, ex. Ogden KOGD and so on. Will ATC coverage extend to these or strictly KSLC?

Suggest reviewing the FAQ on the Western US Expansion: http://pilotedge.net/pages/western-expansion. Handling of airports other than the ones listed on that page is rapidly becoming the #1 question.

The short answer is that it'll be treated as a non-towered field, and our controllers do not have any info for procedures at those fields, nor do they have the extended runway centerlines depicted on their scope that would be required to vector you for an approach.

The very best you can hope for would be to get cleared for a full approach, however there may be a short delay while they pull up the chart to determine the IAF, IF or feeder.

Per the Hidden Gem section of the page, I'd suggest avoiding airports which are towered in the real world which aren't covered on PE, ESPECIALLY if you fly/train in that area. There's little to be gained, unless you're simulating an operation after real world hours where the tower might be closed (assuming it's not a 24hr field in r/w). If you'd like something which mirrors r/w ops a bit more closely, I'd suggest utilizing a non-towered field.

Otherwise, if want to practice in an area with a large volume of smaller towered airports in close proximity, ZLA is the perfect place.

From the link posted above:
Controllers will provide enroute service only and cannot clear aircraft for instrument approaches at these additional fields.
IFR flights can be conducted to these fields, however, pilots will need to cancel IFR reaching top of descent, or FL180 (whichever is lower). Otherwise, ATC will terminate radar services and advise that they are leaving the coverage area shortly after.
Similarly, IFR flights can be conducted from these fields by departing the desired airport and contacting the center controller once airborne.

Should be crystal clear with that information.

We're going to see if we can elevate the level of service for Hidden Gems to permit receipt of IFR clearances on the ground and limited approach services (full approaches only, no vectors) once the dust settles on the launch. For now, the messaging in the Western Expansion page is accurate in that you will receive at least that level of service for now.

I see that most of the responses center on IFR approaches and so on. I am currently just VFR certified so my flying in the KSLC Bravo is VFR only. Because of the Delta airspaces in close proximity, ATC is necessary for transition requests, entry communications etc. Much more than IFR alone. So my original question was if the person manning KSLC would also provide directions for VFR at the Delta fields. If not, and it seems that way, then the expansion really only benefits those who fly airliner routes or cross-country to other supported fields in the expansion. I understand that with so many fields it is impossible to cover and support all with the personnel you have. For me personally ZLA is too crowded with so many airports in such close proximity to each other that it's difficult for me to fly in. So I was hoping for the kind of support I've mentioned above because I can get ATC communication practice in an area with moderately crowed airspace. Never the less, Pilot Edge is a great resource for RW pilots to practice at a fraction of the cost RW flying does. Thanks a lot!

I think that there is still real benefit to flying GA/VFR in these areas since we can practice picking up much needed advisories to transition the Bravo space, whether we are landing at a staffed field or not.

Recently I have started flying (read: riding and helping with radios) with a colleague who keeps his plane at a very nice non towered airfield near a Bravo and pretty much the first thing we do once airborne is call up approach. Although the expansion without staffed Deltas is not absolutely ideal for GA, this seems a very realistic/natural situation in which to be and can be beneficial to the learning process.

I also find the SoCal area to be somewhat cramped - plus my P3D and Orbx aren't playing nice together atm - so...

I've decided, much to the chagrin of the controllers , that I'm going to experiment with GA/VFR in and around the expansion area even if it means extra long flights or CTAFing in and out of Deltas

We're going to see if we can elevate the level of service for Hidden Gems to permit receipt of IFR clearances on the ground and limited approach services (full approaches only, no vectors) once the dust settles on the launch

Hey Keith. 'Workload permitting' that seems an awesome improvement to the hidden gem service. Look forward to that - when you guys can roll it out.

Cheers Dean

Salty60 wrote:So my original question was if the person manning KSLC would also provide directions for VFR at the Delta fields. If not, and it seems that way, then the expansion really only benefits those who fly airliner routes or cross-country to other supported fields in the expansion.

If you have a firm requirement for a Bravo transition followed by immediate entry into a Delta that underlies the Bravo, then yes, the Western US Expansion isn't for you. However, that's not to say that it only benefits airliners and XC to other supported fields. Non-towered airports make up the vast majority of fields in the US.

If you are ok with practicing Bravo transitions using a non-towered airport as the origin/destination, such as KTVY to 42U, then you can still have a relatively realistic experience.

Keith Smith wrote:We're going to see if we can elevate the level of service for Hidden Gems to permit receipt of IFR clearances on the ground and limited approach services (full approaches only, no vectors) once the dust settles on the launch. For now, the messaging in the Western Expansion page is accurate in that you will receive at least that level of service for now.

Happy to report that this has taken place. The web site content has been updated to reflect the fact that you will now get IFR clearances on the ground and you'll be able to receive an approach clearance at the destination.

This is fantastic news Keith. As a piston-only pilot the hidden gems are really the best part of the expansion from my perspective. I'm sure others will feel the same. Picking up an IFR clearance when airborne is OK, except when the field/region is IFR, so being able to pick up clearances while on the ground will allow for a huge variety of realistic ODP practice in IMC. And of course getting cleared for a full approach is much better than hearing "radar services terminated" while in IMC and 30+ miles from the destination. A heartfelt thank you.