Approaches into KABQ with Outdated XPlane GPS data
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:45 pm
Greetings all,
Encountered some curve balls today on an instrument fam flight into the new KABQ airspace that I'd like to get some feedback on - and which I think may be more broadly applicable:
TLDR
1. I think default Xplane General Aviation pilots without updated ARINC data cycles loaded in their GNS430ws are going to have some difficulty shooting approaches into KABQ
2. What the heck is up with a hybrid GPS/ILS approach like ILS 8? Requires GPS (or radar) but no GPS in the title.
3. Is the GNS 430W legal and can the Xplane GNS 430 sim handle RNP approaches like RNAV (RNP) Y RWY 21 -- note it doesn't have an RF leg per se, but it does have a curved approach leg and of course AUTHORIZATION REQUIRED (so no GA though I believe GTN boxes can pull it off) This is all on the edge of r/w updates and pretty cool!
Situation:
Carenado BE33 with GNS430W with defaul ARIAC (ARINC?) Cycle:
AIRAC cycle : 1510 {EDIT: I just discovered that this AIRAC Cycle is NOT in fact the default XP cycle, it's the latest I had from Navigraph sub. Oct 15] I presume XP's is even older...
Version : 1
Valid (from/to): 17/SEP/2015 - 14/OCT/2015
ILS or LOC RWY 8 updated - 10 DEC 15
ILS or LOC RWY 3 updated 10 DEC 15
RNAV GPS Y 3 10 DEC 15
I haven't looked at all the IAFs and waypoints but a number have been renamed and thus are non-existent in the GPS. This can really bite the "non-wary" pilot loading up the approaches and may cause some headaches for the controllers as confusion for piston drivers fills the skies.
Being, semi-aware on this flight , I had planned to fly the GPS Y 8 with a circle to land to 26 due to gusty 26kt winds thanks to it being correct in the outdated database onboard. BUT, for some reason I requested and got the ILS 8, which I then shamefacedly re-requested to be GPS Y 8 a few moments later when I realized what I had done (had already loaded GPS Y 8) in the GPS.
The controller chided me a bit about why I couldn't intercept a localizer without using GPS, but I stuck to my guns and requested GPS Y - since the FIXES (IAFs) on the ILS 8 approach plate no longer match the database in Xplane and the IAFs are BOTH only defined by GPS! I could have taken vectors to localizer but I had a too low situational awareness at that moment and didn't want to increase my workload... Some further examination reveals that this is an odd (to me) ILS/GPS hybrid! Both new IAFs (and presumably the old database IAFs) are GPS waypoints. And of course noted on the plate is GPS OR RADAR REQUIRED.
Perhaps Peter can clarify if it is LEGAL to shoot an ILS with GPS required if your GPS database is out of date. (My guess - yes sorta, but only if you are using Radar contact - and you couldn't be vectored to the IAFs (which is sorta weird). So will ATC always just vector you to an IF since there is no way to perform a procedure turn here???
Summation - flying into KABQ presented me with a ton of unexpected adversity beyond just the mountains to the east. There are seemingly a ton of approaches one can shoot but upon closer inspection they aren't all legal, and the RNP one are (a) technologically blocked with 430W or (b) authorization required.
Great new stuff to learn about on a short IFR hop out of an uncontrolled field. Love it!
Todd
Encountered some curve balls today on an instrument fam flight into the new KABQ airspace that I'd like to get some feedback on - and which I think may be more broadly applicable:
TLDR
1. I think default Xplane General Aviation pilots without updated ARINC data cycles loaded in their GNS430ws are going to have some difficulty shooting approaches into KABQ
2. What the heck is up with a hybrid GPS/ILS approach like ILS 8? Requires GPS (or radar) but no GPS in the title.
3. Is the GNS 430W legal and can the Xplane GNS 430 sim handle RNP approaches like RNAV (RNP) Y RWY 21 -- note it doesn't have an RF leg per se, but it does have a curved approach leg and of course AUTHORIZATION REQUIRED (so no GA though I believe GTN boxes can pull it off) This is all on the edge of r/w updates and pretty cool!
Situation:
Carenado BE33 with GNS430W with defaul ARIAC (ARINC?) Cycle:
AIRAC cycle : 1510 {EDIT: I just discovered that this AIRAC Cycle is NOT in fact the default XP cycle, it's the latest I had from Navigraph sub. Oct 15] I presume XP's is even older...
Version : 1
Valid (from/to): 17/SEP/2015 - 14/OCT/2015
ILS or LOC RWY 8 updated - 10 DEC 15
ILS or LOC RWY 3 updated 10 DEC 15
RNAV GPS Y 3 10 DEC 15
I haven't looked at all the IAFs and waypoints but a number have been renamed and thus are non-existent in the GPS. This can really bite the "non-wary" pilot loading up the approaches and may cause some headaches for the controllers as confusion for piston drivers fills the skies.
Being, semi-aware on this flight , I had planned to fly the GPS Y 8 with a circle to land to 26 due to gusty 26kt winds thanks to it being correct in the outdated database onboard. BUT, for some reason I requested and got the ILS 8, which I then shamefacedly re-requested to be GPS Y 8 a few moments later when I realized what I had done (had already loaded GPS Y 8) in the GPS.
The controller chided me a bit about why I couldn't intercept a localizer without using GPS, but I stuck to my guns and requested GPS Y - since the FIXES (IAFs) on the ILS 8 approach plate no longer match the database in Xplane and the IAFs are BOTH only defined by GPS! I could have taken vectors to localizer but I had a too low situational awareness at that moment and didn't want to increase my workload... Some further examination reveals that this is an odd (to me) ILS/GPS hybrid! Both new IAFs (and presumably the old database IAFs) are GPS waypoints. And of course noted on the plate is GPS OR RADAR REQUIRED.
Perhaps Peter can clarify if it is LEGAL to shoot an ILS with GPS required if your GPS database is out of date. (My guess - yes sorta, but only if you are using Radar contact - and you couldn't be vectored to the IAFs (which is sorta weird). So will ATC always just vector you to an IF since there is no way to perform a procedure turn here???
Summation - flying into KABQ presented me with a ton of unexpected adversity beyond just the mountains to the east. There are seemingly a ton of approaches one can shoot but upon closer inspection they aren't all legal, and the RNP one are (a) technologically blocked with 430W or (b) authorization required.
Great new stuff to learn about on a short IFR hop out of an uncontrolled field. Love it!
Todd