CAT-1/CAT-2: Airport Error/Utility of Flight Simulation

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CAT-1/CAT-2: Airport Error/Utility of Flight Simulation

Postby redge » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:41 am

UPDATE January 5, 2019: ForeFlight has restored New Cuyama (L88) to its database. Post #9 raises a distinct question about the utility of flight simulation generally.

Don't go looking for New Cuyama Airport (L88) in the current 10.6 version of ForeFlight. It isn't there. ForeFlight Support tells me that they are aware of this problem and intend to fix it, although there is no timeframe.
Last edited by redge on Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:23 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: CAT-1: ForeFlight/Garmin Pilot Airport Errors

Postby Keith Smith » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:32 pm

Dying to know what lead to the unintentional removal of L88 from FF. Very interesting!
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Re: CAT-1: ForeFlight Airport Error

Postby redge » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:01 pm

New Cuyama Airport closed down in 2015. That may explain this, although it reopened in 2016 which means that ForeFlight has had a couple of years to fix this. Makes me wonder whether it's just a screwup and, if so, how many other airports have gone missing on ForeFlight :)

The airport reopened due to the efforts of a group of pilots and efforts by the owner to raise money. It's a good question how long it will remain open. There is no economic reason for it to exist. Both the town and the airport were created by an oil company in the early 1950s, and there is no longer enough oil worth extracting. It appears that attempts to attract business to the airport have thus far been unsuccessful.
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Re: CAT-1: ForeFlight/Garmin Pilot Airport Errors

Postby rtataryn » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:57 pm

The FAA shows L88 currently closed . . . https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWeb/n ... eLocId=L88
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Re: CAT-1: ForeFlight Airport Error

Postby redge » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:52 pm

rtataryn wrote:The FAA shows L88 currently closed . . . https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWeb/n ... eLocId=L88


Yes, that NOTAM says that it will be closed Dec. 20 through Jan. 19 inclusive. Perhaps the owner is taking a long Christmas vacation. New Cuyama isn't Heathrow :)

There's actually some potential here. The town would be a great base for exploring Los Padres National Forest. The local community has created a non-profit to pursue the idea, but it has a long way to go.
Last edited by redge on Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: CAT-1: ForeFlight/Garmin Pilot Airport Errors

Postby sono » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:43 am

redge wrote:Don't go looking for New Cuyama Airport (L88) in the current 10.6 version of ForeFlight.


I imagine FF do not author the aviation data themselves but get it from the FAA?

CAT-1 is a short VFR flight so one can always look out the window.
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Re: CAT-1/CAT-2: ForeFlight Airport Error

Postby redge » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:22 am

Props to ForeFlight Support. Since raising the disappearance of this airport a couple of days ago, it has restored New Cuyama (L88) to its database.
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Re: CAT-1: ForeFlight/Garmin Pilot Airport Errors

Postby RogerW » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:50 am

sono wrote: CAT-1 is a short VFR flight so one can always look out the window.


All the CAT Raings 1 - 11 are VFR so I would hope you are following the roads, mountains, and shorelines while doing them.
It's all just part of the adventure! :D
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Re: CAT-1: ForeFlight/Garmin Pilot Airport Errors

Postby redge » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:31 pm

RogerW wrote:
sono wrote: CAT-1 is a short VFR flight so one can always look out the window.


All the CAT Raings 1 - 11 are VFR so I would hope you are following the roads, mountains, and shorelines while doing them.
It's all just part of the adventure! :D


Roads? Check, but only for roads that stand out, which most don’t.

Shorelines? For CAT-1 and CAT-2, it’s essential to know that there are rivers and a reservoir that have little to no water in them for much of the year. When dry, they will look very different from the air, assuming that they are even easily identifiable. Understanding this requires close attention to the symbols on the aeronautical chart plus internet research about what is going on with those rivers and reservoir seasonally. Ever heard of flash floods? Well the Cuyama is a flash river, and that's not by a long shot all that's going on with the "rivers" and "reservoir".

Mountains? For CAT-1 and CAT-2, we are talking about Los Pedros National Forest. Los Pedros presents serious weather and orientation issues, and a very big issue if one needs to land immediately. I defy anyone who lacks intimate knowledge of Los Pedros to fly across it in real life using only the aeronautical chart and his or her eyesight. Doing so could well turn into more of an “adventure” than one bargained for, assuming that you aren’t dead on impact. If seriously interested in traversing Los Pedros, maybe chuck the aeronautical chart and have a serious look at the U.S. Geological Survey topographic map, the National Forest Service map and Google Earth. Also, maybe check news reports. Last August, part of the CAT-1/CAT-2 area was caught up in a significant forest fire, with results probably hard to miss from the air, and therefore useful.

If one is going to fly across Los Pedros, the obvious way to do it is to use GPS. To my astonishment, the YouTube videos on the CAT-1 and CAT-2 exercises ignore GPS and rely on radio navigation. Lord, this is 2019. Radio navigation is a backup at best. It is rapidly being deprecated, indeed widely being decommissioned.

To put it bluntly, in my view none of the many YouTube videos about the CAT-1 and CAT-2 exercises show an appreciation for the weather, navigation and safety issues involved. In fact, I think that they demonstrate shortcomings of simulated vs real life flying that raise questions, if one intends to fly in the real world, about the wisdom of self-directed flight simulation.

My personal takeaway from watching all of the YouTube videos on these exercises is that flight simulation may not be a good way for me to spend time outside of using it to internalise things like checklists.
Last edited by redge on Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:32 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: CAT-1/CAT-2: ForeFlight Airport Error

Postby RogerW » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:29 pm

Dang... did I throw an M-80 in the campfire here?

All I was saying is all these CATs are VFR flights and if ForeFlight took L88 out of their database then click on SkyVector and look out the window. I did all the CATs with FSX Gold and default scenery and did them all looking out the window and I've watched videos with payware scenery. You can't miss the freeways and state highways.
Too much reliance is put on technology, especially a GPS. You do realize that at any time the US military can mess with the accuracy of the satellites and your GPS would become an expensive paperweight.
I watched a video today. The pilot took off, put up his gear, and at about 500ft he started fiddling with his AP, all the while the plane nosed over and he lost probably a 100ft. As a passenger on that flight I would have had to go change some of my clothes after that!

Peace! :)
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