Coast to Coast now available for FREE!

Real World VFR, IFR and Coast to Coast discussion area
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Keith Smith
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Coast to Coast now available for FREE!

Post by Keith Smith »

Pilotworkshops is now offering RW C2C at no charge due to COVID, the link is available on the Pilot Center on our site!
FDXDave
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Re: Coast to Coast now available for FREE!

Post by FDXDave »

Cool. Thanks !

Dave
FDXDave
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Re: Coast to Coast now available for FREE!

Post by FDXDave »

I've been slowly watching these flights / briefs. Nicely done.
Question on Leg 4: KCAE-KMXA

Shortly after takeoff, you hear a Pilot request go around due to traffic on the runway. The controller told him that he can land with the traffic on the runway due to the fact the aircraft types permitted it, that the landing aircraft only needed 3000 feet or something like that. I found it interesting that you can actually get clearance to land on a runway where another aircraft is lined up and waiting? I would of done a go around too if I saw a plane on the runway. I know during your sponsored Oshkosh flyin, multiple aircraft can land on the same runway, green dot etc... But I thought special permits had to be obtained for that. Anyway, best hobby around where you still learn new stuff years into it : )
Dave.
Marcus Becker
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Re: Coast to Coast now available for FREE!

Post by Marcus Becker »

I tried to find reference to same runway separation in the AIM or other FAA document that wasn't the ATC manual and I came up empty. For now, you can have a quick read from Bold Method. If you feel like it you can follow the link to the .65 for ATC rules regarding the subject.
https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly ... ay%20land.
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Kevin_atc
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Re: Coast to Coast now available for FREE!

Post by Kevin_atc »

FDXDave wrote:I've been slowly watching these flights / briefs. Nicely done.
Question on Leg 4: KCAE-KMXA

Shortly after takeoff, you hear a Pilot request go around due to traffic on the runway. The controller told him that he can land with the traffic on the runway due to the fact the aircraft types permitted it, that the landing aircraft only needed 3000 feet or something like that. I found it interesting that you can actually get clearance to land on a runway where another aircraft is lined up and waiting? I would of done a go around too if I saw a plane on the runway. I know during your sponsored Oshkosh flyin, multiple aircraft can land on the same runway, green dot etc... But I thought special permits had to be obtained for that. Anyway, best hobby around where you still learn new stuff years into it : )
Dave.
The only waiver that OSH uses is CAT2 can land just 3000 ft behind CAT1 as opposed to the usual 4500ft. Other than that, OSH operates legally under normal separation standards.
Kevin
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Keith Smith
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Re: Coast to Coast now available for FREE!

Post by Keith Smith »

I found it interesting that you can actually get clearance to land on a runway where another aircraft is lined up and waiting?
That's incorrect, and not what was happening in the video. The aircraft that was on the runway was downfield by more than 3000ft. There as no aircraft in position. (EDIT: I was wrong, see reply after Kevin's)

There is an ATC regulation that specifically prevents issuance of a landing clearance if an aircraft has been given a position and hold instruction (which is articulated with the specific phraseology, "line up and wait.") In those cases, arriving aircraft will typically be issued an instruction to "continue." Any pilot who hears "continue" should generally assume it's being issued because of traffic in position.
Kevin_atc
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Re: Coast to Coast now available for FREE!

Post by Kevin_atc »

Keith Smith wrote:
I found it interesting that you can actually get clearance to land on a runway where another aircraft is lined up and waiting?
That's incorrect, and not what was happening in the video. The aircraft that was on the runway was downfield by more than 3000ft. There as no aircraft in position.

There is an ATC regulation that specifically prevents issuance of a landing clearance if an aircraft has been given a position and hold instruction (which is articulated with the specific phraseology, "line up and wait.") In those cases, arriving aircraft will typically be issued an instruction to "continue." Any pilot who hears "continue" should generally assume it's being issued because of traffic in position.
Just to eliminate possible confusion- there ARE provisions which allow a landing clearance to be issued with an aircraft in position for that same runway, but it’s only when there are safety logic systems in operation. Some facilities also have additional restrictions based on their staffing configuration as to when they’re allowed to do it. Generally only the large airports have the safety logic system therefore you’re unlikely to see an aircraft in position with an aircraft cleared to land at a small airport.
Kevin
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Keith Smith
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Re: Coast to Coast now available for FREE!

Post by Keith Smith »

I flubbed that one, my mistake. I was so used to simulating fields which didn't have the safety logic system, I forgot the provision actually existed to allow for them, sorry Dave! I also thought Dave was referring to the video, rather than the regs :)
FDXDave
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Re: Coast to Coast now available for FREE!

Post by FDXDave »

Keith Smith wrote:I flubbed that one, my mistake. I was so used to simulating fields which didn't have the safety logic system, I forgot the provision actually existed to allow for them, sorry Dave! I also thought Dave was referring to the video, rather than the regs :)
Nope, you were correct. i did misunderstood the radio chatter. No one had referenced the line up and wait. That was just what i assumed had been going on. Makes way more sense to me now. And the meaning of continuing.
Thank you all for the explanations. Very interesting. Even though i misinterpreted something on the radio ( not my first time lol ) i still learned something from it and that's what matters.

Thanks,
Dave.
Reno911
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:51 pm

Re: Coast to Coast now available for FREE!

Post by Reno911 »

Huge thankyou to PilotEdge, and you in particular Keith, for making this available. I've had to be away from home (and my simulator) for the past 6weeks and this was a terrific way to continue to learn during this time. Though it must have sucked to keep that video gear on the whole time; here's one guy who enjoyed the flight, and the planning, and the color commentary immensely. Steve
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