Never again on PE - share your mistakes

[n65z]

I feel your pain, Ron....if you don't mind, I am gonna steal "Cockpit overload to level ten, cognitive capacity to caveman. ". Exactly how i feel sometimes when getting something from ATC that I didn't anticipate...lol

[Peter Grey]

Hey Ron,

I took some time and listened to the recordings of your flights to see what happened. Here's some of the details from the other side:

Then… Instead of telling me to go direct to Seal Beach, which I had tuned the VOR for already, he controller directed me to go to a heading I wasn’t expecting, then to follow a radial on the Santa Monica VOR (Don’t remember which one.). I tuned to the radial, forgetting that Nav1 was on Seal Beach (SLI).

This instruction was to join the SMO 125 radial which was on your route of flight just a little down the line. Basically the controller gave you a shortcut, this shortcut is actually the standard real world procedure for SNA departures. It prevents you from having to go to SLI (NE) just to turn westbound. It's not the IFR clearance as the IFR clearance has to allow for lost comms (in a lost comm situation it's easier for you to get to SLI then a random SMO radial).

This is very true. I flew on, and eventually got an odd radial (not the one in the TEC route) to fly outbound from Santa Monica VOR.

Your instruction was to "depart Santa Monica on heading 300" this isn't an instruction to join a radial, just a radar vector.

I started to turn to 050, got told not to by ATC.

I'm still not sure what you are exactly referring to here. The sequence of events at this point was:

1. Controller issued you a clearance for the ILS approach. It was "3 miles from Silex, fly heading 050, start your turn now please, maintain 3000 until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 8 approach."

2. You read it back.

3. Shortly thereafter (I can't tell you how long as the recordings remove the silences between transmissions) the controller asked if you had started your turn.

4. Based on the next transmission it looks like you failed to join the localizer as instructed, this results in you entering an area of high terrain North of the localizer.

5. The controller has to issue a low altitude alert and does so. At this point you indicate that you will be disconnecting.

At that point, I decided to politely log off and try again another night. I apologize if my voice was strained, or if I sounded terse. My frustration level was exceeding my ability to learn, and I didn’t feel like stumbling around the airspace. I’m a little type A that way. All I could think of was that I was supposed to be flying a TEC route, and got steamed.

No worries, you sounded composed on the recording. Additionally the controller didn't make any note of the event to us so we consider it a non-event.

So that's what happened based on the recordings, please let me know if you have any questions.

[RonCraighead]

Wow... Didn't expect an analysis, but I sure appreciate it!

I'll chase down the recording tonight and pick the flight apart, and figure out what I did wrong. Never would have thought of doing that.

The Blue Angels have a debrief ritual where they confess your sins specifically, pledge to improve, and say 'Happy to be here boss...'

Thanks for the critique. We can't afford to let our mistakes go un noticed and un-corrected, can we?

Happy to be here...

Cheers,

Ron

[stealthbob]

OK here for some absolution from my transgressions last night...

It was a KLAS to KLAX in the EPIC, perfect flight all the way to the final clearance to ILS 24R...then the one mistake that started it all to fail.

I normally fly full/A but on this one I entered some fixes in the GPS and played with that a bit. Problem is if you forget to switch off the GPS mode you don't get the HSI to work as set by the VOR/LOC. So I ended up overflying the ILS and was nicely (Thanks Peter for being so good about it) vectored back...of course did not pick it up again. All the while thinking I had either the wrong plate up or the wrong Freq/CRS...it was fast and confusing

I then proceeded to dumb it down by complaining to ACT that I don't know what is wrong with the plane, meanwhile all the while the issues were obviously located between the seat and the yoke. "We can't diagnose your aircraft problems" was the next thing I recall from ATC...nice one Peter!

It went farther South when I wanted a visual, I could see the airfield clearly but apparently RW was IMC? So after some back and forth I got handed off to the Tower, and started a good approach...too bad to the wrong RWY !!! I caught the mistake in time and asked for a go around where I then stalled the plane and turned over the wrong way.

I am glad there is a neat and undocumented feature in the EPIC..an ejection seat which was quickly utilized and allowed me to enjoy a nice peacefully drop onto the LAX beach, a location where I continue to be enjoying.

I need more network time, I have been doing mostly VFR and most of that without FF. All this to get better at hand flying and VFR route planning but at the detriment to procedural skills and practice with the extra complexity that comes with talking to ATC. Keith said it best on some Pod cast he was on, PE keeps you honest...too bad I bailed on this one, as bad as it was I should have just stuck it out but I hate messing up the network with this crap.

[stevekirks]

FDX4345 KSFO to KONT on 6-15-15

After takeoff, realized after departure that my trim was stuck full forward and I couldn't recover. The NTSB combed through the wreckage in the ocean just off the coast and found a defective trim wheel controller. Sadly, all Apple Watch cargo was lost...



Edit: Lesson learned here was to verify all of your controls. While I checked the typical aileron/rudder/elevator combo, I didn't check trim on the wheel. In real life, I would have done that on a small trainer during a preflight check.

[stealthbob]

Sadly, all Apple Watch cargo was lost...

You did the world a favour and I thank you....

[Nelson L.]

FDX4345 KSFO to KONT on 6-15-15

After takeoff, realized after departure that my trim was stuck full forward and I couldn't recover. The NTSB combed through the wreckage in the ocean just off the coast and found a defective trim wheel controller. Sadly, all Apple Watch cargo was lost...

I hate to hijack (I seem to say that a lot, although it never seems to prevent me from actually hijacking...), but in a real aircraft, what safety measures are in place to prevent something like this? I had always assumed that it would be possible to fight the trim, even if it was fully deflected. Or did you just lose the aircraft because of pilot incompetence ?

[stevekirks]

FDX4345 KSFO to KONT on 6-15-15

After takeoff, realized after departure that my trim was stuck full forward and I couldn't recover. The NTSB combed through the wreckage in the ocean just off the coast and found a defective trim wheel controller. Sadly, all Apple Watch cargo was lost...

I hate to hijack (I seem to say that a lot, although it never seems to prevent me from actually hijacking...), but in a real aircraft, what safety measures are in place to prevent something like this? I had always assumed that it would be possible to fight the trim, even if it was fully deflected. Or did you just lose the aircraft because of pilot incompetence ?

I could sort of power through it. It was the PMDG 777 fully loaded with cargo, light on fuel but I had full back yoke and I could almost control it. Impossible with one pilot at the sim controls. I discovered the problem after getting about 1200 ft AGL and used the wheel instead of the switch on the yoke. I made it 7000 feet due west of 28R at KSFO but couldn't really control it for a landing. I might try it again offline. In real life, it was the Saitek trim wheel that was full forward and disabling it made things normal.

I don't fly the big 777 much but I wanted to try out for the Excel guys so I now know I need practice.

[rtataryn]

FDX4345 KSFO to KONT on 6-15-15

After takeoff, realized after departure that my trim was stuck full forward and I couldn't recover. The NTSB combed through the wreckage in the ocean just off the coast and found a defective trim wheel controller. Sadly, all Apple Watch cargo was lost...

I hate to hijack (I seem to say that a lot, although it never seems to prevent me from actually hijacking...), but in a real aircraft, what safety measures are in place to prevent something like this? I had always assumed that it would be possible to fight the trim, even if it was fully deflected. Or did you just lose the aircraft because of pilot incompetence ?

In every aircraft I've ever flown (Cessnas, Pipers, Mooney, Cirrus) "Set trim to takeoff position" is very clearly listed in the pre-takeoff checklist.
Although I've never tried it, I would expect it would likely be quite difficult to muscle a takeoff climb while in a full forward trim deflection, particularly in certain aircraft.

[stevekirks]

FDX4345 KSFO to KONT on 6-15-15

After takeoff, realized after departure that my trim was stuck full forward and I couldn't recover. The NTSB combed through the wreckage in the ocean just off the coast and found a defective trim wheel controller. Sadly, all Apple Watch cargo was lost...

I hate to hijack (I seem to say that a lot, although it never seems to prevent me from actually hijacking...), but in a real aircraft, what safety measures are in place to prevent something like this? I had always assumed that it would be possible to fight the trim, even if it was fully deflected. Or did you just lose the aircraft because of pilot incompetence ?

In every aircraft I've ever flown (Cessnas, Pipers, Mooney, Cirrus) "Set trim to takeoff position" is very clearly listed in the pre-takeoff checklist.
Although I've never tried it, I would expect it would likely be quite difficult to muscle a takeoff climb while in a full forward trim deflection, particularly in certain aircraft.

It was in the checklist and it was correctly set at 4 degrees. It wasn't until I was on the climbout that when I touched the TRIM WHEEL controller that it caused the sim to constantly receive a "down" trim signal that I could not override using the YOKE TRIM SWITCH. The yoke trim is a different controller in Windows, so it was the Saitek trim wheel that was sending a spurious signal.