V2 Airspace Confusion

[WBEG]

Hello All,
So after getting through the V1 I have started to practice for the V2. The first time I attempted the flight all went well except one part. I called SoCal as per instructions from ATC and received permission to transition the Chino delta on my way to Ontario. A few minutes after I had received the permission I was contacted by SoCal and told that I had to climb from my altitude, 2300ft, to stay out of the Chino delta. I complied and continued on my way to Ontario but I was wondering why I was asked to climb. I don't remember this being done in the V2 instructional video and doesn't this request contradict my receiving the permission to transition the delta. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of the flight but just confused as to why this happened. Any insight would be grand.
Cheers,

[Ryan B]

Unless CNO tower had someone in the pattern (high!) maybe it made sense but if you were talking to socal you don't need to talk to any class D tower as the tracon (socal approach/departure) basically supersedes the class D airspace.

I've found this to be confusing to pilots in real life as well. I work air traffic in Duluth MN - we're a class D tower with tracon. If pilots talk to the tracon they often ask "are we ok to transition" or "do we need to talk to tower for the transition."

No you don't.

Anyway, why you were asked to climb? No clue - maybe they had traffic... but you shouldn't have to climb to avoid a D when being provided radar services/traffic advisories/flight following (from socal)

[bbuckley]

Might be less confusion to just file and fly 3,000. Get cleared into the Charlie, get handed off to ONT twr, and watch the descent to pattern altitude so you don't go down into the north end of the CNO Delta.

Ryan, even tho you might not have to change freqs to twr if the TRACON clears you through, wouldn't they have to coordinate that with twr first? Here in FL it's rare to have the TRACON clear you through a Delta towers airspace without handing you off to twr for the transition. Maybe I need to come up to MN (that actually sounds great given the FL humidity in July)

[Keith Smith]

The top 500ft of many Deltas is often delegated to the overlying TRACON so that the TRACON can have people transition under their control without having to coordinate it with the tower.

Regarding the climb, it could be that there was going to be a conflict. Don't treat the instructional videos as hard and fast scripts. Things change from flight to flight, especially when you're VFR.

[bbuckley]

Keith: That's interesting,thanks. I had not heard of TRACONs assuming control of the top of some Class Delta airspace. Does that only happen when the Delta underlies a Class Charlie or Bravo? I'm really interested in this since flying up & down the Florida east coast is one Class Delta after another. Many, like Space Coast Titusville (KTIX) or Melbourne (KMLB) or Patrick (KCOF) require one freq change after another even with VFR flight following IF for some reason you need to stay ~2,000 for VFR cloud base clearance. In those cases, Orlando Approach will almost always either give an "At or Above" altitude restriction or hand you off to tower. On a very slow day, if it's one transition they may coordinate and tell you to stay with them. Your post below on the subject from 2011 seems to say, on the V-2, either stay above CNO's Delta or ensure the transition is approved. Since SOCAL cleared him through specifically, that was covered. But it looks like back then a coordination with tower was needed.

From the VFR pilot's perspective, you should not assume that it's ok to enter the Delta if you're not talking to the agency that controls that airspace...and as far as you're concerned as a pilot, that would be the tower controller.

If you're IFR and getting vectored for an instrument approach where the approach takes you through Class D airspace, it has been coordinated and you needn't be concerned.

It is true that approach will often coordinate transitions for VFR aircraft, but if they haven't, and you bust the Delta...that could fall back on you (real world), so it's best to find out, or remain above that Delta.

If a controller is too busy to coordinate the transition, or too busy to monitor your flight to see if you might actually clip someone's Delta, he/she may issue an 'at or above' restriction to keep you clear of it. For example, when pilots are doing the V-2 flight (SNA-ONT), as an approach controller, I'll often issue an altitude restriction to keep them above the Chino/Riverside Class D airspace.

[Ryan B]

Might be less confusion to just file and fly 3,000. Get cleared into the Charlie, get handed off to ONT twr, and watch the descent to pattern altitude so you don't go down into the north end of the CNO Delta.

Ryan, even tho you might not have to change freqs to twr if the TRACON clears you through, wouldn't they have to coordinate that with twr first? Here in FL it's rare to have the TRACON clear you through a Delta towers airspace without handing you off to twr for the transition. Maybe I need to come up to MN (that actually sounds great given the FL humidity in July)

If I'm working radar yes I coordinate with twr for the transition. But this is why you don't need to talk to the tower... we do it for you. It may be slightly different between facilities.

Duluth is really nice this time of year. It's only nice for about three months... then I'm coming down to Florida. I actually bid for Orlando tower.... still waiting for a response.

[bbuckley]

Thanks Ryan. Best wishes on getting Orlando.